Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Just because players want fighting, doesn't mean we should keep fighting.

But that's for a different thread.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

A point to which no one has ever refuted.

Plenty of people have tried to refute it only to be laughed at.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Are we talking about relying on "the eye test" for hockey or baseball? Because, as far as i'm concerned, the eye test doesn't add much to baseball and has often taken away from solid analysis (like Cabrera taking an MVP away from Trout, or Rollins taking an MVP from Wright in 07).

I think we can't have a false equivalence. Sure, obviously you should watch the games, but baseball statistics are advanced enough to the point where they reveal a lot more. Hockey isn't there yet, but that doesn't mean you can discount stats because your eyes disagree with them.

 

[silverfish]

As with all things, most are good complements, rarely is anything great on its own.

Corsi/Fenwick/etc. are fine complements to watching the game. Just like watching the game is a fine complement to corsi/fenwick/etc... To use either or anything on it's own when we have the resources not to would be a miscalculation of assets at hand.

I do wonder, perhaps Brian Boyle is the right guy to ask here, if there are ways to "weigh" relative corsi and fenwick. As in, Pouliot played most of his time with Zuccarello and Brassard, could you somehow take their possession numbers, or the difference in possession numbers and somehow weigh it against teammate time on ice to get a better indicator of who was really driving the play on that line?

Would be a curious thing...

EDIT - Never mind. They have "with" and "without" numbers already, don't they?

 

[Thirty One]

As with all things, most are good complements, rarely is anything great on its own.

Corsi/Fenwick/etc. are fine complements to watching the game. Just like watching the game is a fine complement to corsi/fenwick/etc... To use either or anything on it's own when we have the resources not to would be a miscalculation of assets at hand.

I do wonder, perhaps Brian Boyle is the right guy to ask here, if there are ways to "weigh" relative corsi and fenwick. As in, Pouliot played most of his time with Zuccarello and Brassard, could you somehow take their possession numbers, or the difference in possession numbers and somehow weigh it against teammate time on ice to get a better indicator of who was really driving the play on that line?

Would be a curious thing...

EDIT - Never mind. They have "with" and "without" numbers already, don't they?

Yes they do. I addressed that very question in Brassard's season in review:

It's often been suggested that Pouliot was a passenger on that line. Don't think that's the case.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Renaud Lavoie ‏@renlavoietva 15s
Mike Ribeiro should make a decision this week about his future. He visit a Western team and will talk to a Eastern team this week.

 

[TheTakedown]

Renaud Lavoie ‏@renlavoietva 15s
Mike Ribeiro should make a decision this week about his future. He visit a Western team and will talk to a Eastern team this week.

he is talking to the Rangers... at least that is my forcast

 

[Doctyl]

Yea Ribeiro has talent as a PP specialist but he's a cancer. Don't need him near our young guys at all.

 

[Radek27]

Renaud Lavoie ‏@renlavoietva 15s
Mike Ribeiro should make a decision this week about his future. He visit a Western team and will talk to a Eastern team this week.

I hope it's not us but it's such a Slats move.

 

[Trainmman]

Ribero is the best center left on the market. I'm guessing Rangers and Nashville.

 

[Fitzy]

Undecided on Ribeiro. He's at almost a point per game going all the way back to 2008, but you don't want to ruin the culture of the locker room.

 

[Tawnos]

Yes they do. I addressed that very question in Brassard's season in review:

It's often been suggested that Pouliot was a passenger on that line. Don't think that's the case.

Pouliot WAS a passenger on that line. Brassard just had better chemistry with them than anyone else. This is a fundamental problem. Basically, my feeling based on watching the play is that Brassard made Pouliot make him better. This is the effect of being the more talented player on a line that has chemistry. It's a narrower version of the effect of Dupuis on Crosby. Crosby is a better player with Dupuis on his line, but no one would ever consider Dupuis more than a passenger.

 

[Rick Nash 61]

FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($2.400m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Mats Zuccarello ($3.350m) / Derick Brassard ($3.700m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Magnus Paajarvi ($1.200m) / Mike Ribeiro ($2.000m) / Carl Hagelin ($2.250m)
Ryan Carter ($0.850m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Tanner Glass ($1.450m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.800m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan #1 = Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan #2 = Boyle ($4.500m)
John Moore ($1.200m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Mike Kostka ($0.650m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

BUYOUTS
Brad Richards ($0.000m)

BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------

TOTALS
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000;
CAP PAYROLL: $69,292,500;
BONUSES: $1,095,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $708,500

Hopefully McIllraith in for Klein somewhere around midseason (deal Klein)
Allowing Glen to use that necessary capspace to ultimately try to get that final deadline piece

That is a solid lineup I like that a lot. I think Paajarvi and Ribeiro can replace Pouliot and Rich and could potentially be even better (a player like Paajarvi is a player that AV makes big).

 

[Vitto79]

Ribiero is a risk but he's talented

 

[Thirty One]

Pouliot WAS a passenger on that line. Brassard just had better chemistry with them than anyone else. This is a fundamental problem. Basically, my feeling based on watching the play is that Brassard made Pouliot make him better. This is the effect of being the more talented player on a line that has chemistry. It's a narrower version of the effect of Dupuis on Crosby. Crosby is a better player with Dupuis on his line, but no one would ever consider Dupuis more than a passenger.

No, and the stats reflect that with Crosby and Dupuis. Dupuis' CF% jumps up 6% in the past three seasons when playing with Crosby.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I don't want him... Even for a year...

 

[Hire Sather]

From now on lets not even discuss what we see on the ice. Just post the graphs and percentages because those who post them act like nobody can argue against them.

The percentages say this, therefore whatever anyone says doesn't matter.

 

[Emptyvoid]

From now on lets not even discuss what we see on the ice. Just post the graphs and percentages because those who post them act like nobody can argue against them.

The percentages say this, therefore whatever anyone says doesn't matter.

Why is it always one way or another, it doesn't always have to be black or white.

We should be using advanced statistics in combination with what we see on the ice.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

From now on lets not even discuss what we see on the ice. Just post the graphs and percentages because those who post them act like nobody can argue against them.

The percentages say this, therefore whatever anyone says doesn't matter.

It does get a bit silly... But no one said that

 

[Tawnos]

No, and the stats reflect that with Crosby and Dupuis. Dupuis' CF% jumps up 6% in the past three seasons when playing with Crosby.

I wasn't talking about Corsi numbers, though.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

From now on lets not even discuss what we see on the ice. Just post the graphs and percentages because those who post them act like nobody can argue against them.

The percentages say this, therefore whatever anyone says doesn't matter.

If Slats did this, then maybe we wouldn't have wasted a contract on Tanner Glass.

 

[Hire Sather]

Why is it always one way or another, it doesn't always have to be black or white.

We should be using advanced statistics in combination with what we see on the ice.

Because there are posters who put nothing into their agruements other than citing and pasting the fancy percentages and stats. Somebody has an opinion on a player but is basically laughed at and told they are 100% wrong because of those percentages.

 

[Zil]

I wasn't talking about Corsi numbers, though.

Ok, then what were you talking about? It's not like Pouliot's conventional numbers were way up this year.

2010–11 79 13 17 30 0.38 ppg
2011–12 74 16 16 32 0.43 ppg
2012–13 34 8 12 20 0.59 ppg
2013–14 80 15 21 36 0.45 ppg

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

1) Brassard, Miller, Kristo, Allen for Joe Thornton

That's a replacement center in Brassard, and THREE NHL-ready prospects. A center, a winger, and a defenseman. That's a perfect return for San Jose. It may even be TOO much for Jumbo Joe.

2) Klein for Chimera

Washington has a lot of defensemen under contract, but they're almost all crap. They could use a guy like Klein who can eat up minutes playing mostly mistake-free hockey. Chimera makes 2M per season for two more seasons. He's huge, he can skate in AV's system, he actually USES his size, and he can chip in offensively. He's a guy who has had success against the Rangers, and Sather always seems to go after those guys. Chimera is the perfect third-liner to play opposite Hagelin on the third line.

Nash Thornton St. Louis
Kreider Stepan Zuccarello
Hagelin Lindberg Chimera
Glass Moore Mueller
Haggerty

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Boyle
Moore McIlrath
Kostka

Lundqvist
Talbot




CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Mats Zuccarello ($3.850m) / Joe Thornton ($6.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Kreider ($2.400m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Oscar Lindberg ($0.675m) / Jason Chimera ($2.000m)
Tanner Glass ($1.450m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Chris Mueller ($0.600m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Boyle ($4.500m)
John Moore ($1.200m) / Dylan McIlrath ($0.703m)
Mike Kostka ($0.650m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,265,833; BONUSES: $676,667
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $734,167

 

[Fitzy]

Pouliot got those numbers playing only 13:26 a game, barely more than Brian Boyle.

His even strength points per even strength minute played was actually right up there among our forwards. Don't have the numbers in front of me but there's a chance it's as high as any of our other full time forwards not named Zuccarello.

Not saying he was a great player, but he wasn't a horrid one either.