Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread

[Zil]

The people who use the term "toffness" as a pejorative are every bit as ignorant when it comes to the on-ice comings and goings of a hockey game as they claim the goon advocates are.

Why? Because they rightfully point out that there is no correlation between fighting and winning? Or because they believe that just adding big guys who can't actually play accomplishes little? Size doesn't do you any good unless you can use it to control the play.

 

[BlaqICE]

Why? Because they rightfully point out that there is no correlation between fighting and winning? Or because they believe that just adding big guys who can't actually play accomplishes little? Size doesn't do you any good unless you can use it to control the play.

Exactly. Rick Nash is a perfect example. What good does being 6'4" and 213 lbs do for you if you don't use it?

 

[mike14]

Exactly. Rick Nash is a perfect example. What good does being 6'4" and 213 lbs do for you if you don't use it?

Well, and I'm just spitballing here,it may have helped him score 328 NHL goals; but it's one of those things that's really hard to judge because we can't see how he'd perform is he was shorter or lighter.

 

[Doctyl]

It's actually pretty funny that this fan base would trade our leading goal scorer for the past 2 years for a "decent roster player"

 

[Fitzy]

Why? Because they rightfully point out that there is no correlation between fighting and winning? Or because they believe that just adding big guys who can't actually play accomplishes little? Size doesn't do you any good unless you can use it to control the play.

Correlation implies that your hypothesis on toughness and winning is actually scientifically testable, and not open to a myriad of different methodological and epistemological problems.

It also implies that physical play and fighting are synonymous.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

^ he used Dictionary.com

 

[NewLife]

Exactly. Rick Nash is a perfect example. What good does being 6'4" and 213 lbs do for you if you don't use it?

But he does use his size.

 

[Fitzy]

If you have a strong team with no skill, you suffer. If your team is full of undersized skill players, the problem continues. Look at how the MSL-Brassard-Zuccarello line performed.

Strength helps. So does having a guy on your team who you know will have your back.

 

[Savant]

Rather move Girardi, Kristo, + small x _______
for those 2.

Gardiner can play RD, partner w/McD.

get younger RD, less wear and tear

extend Staal, up his value, if kept or traded.

Gardiner being able to play RD with McDonagh is a myth. There is no evidence this works.

Gardiner is also not good. Overrated Leafs player. I still don't get why people like him unless I'm missing something. The leafs are an awful defensive team and he is part of it.

I would rather have Bellemore. That was a good shout.

If you trade Marc Staal you need to replace him with someone that can eat those minutes that can come in (theoretically) at a salary less than Stralman commanded. Only name that makes sense to me is Jack Johnson, but I think that you need to keep Staal now to carry Boyle defensively, which is unfortunate because Staal is their only trade asset.

Very confusing offseason.

 

[Thirty One]

Size and strength absolutely matters, all thing equal. But if that size and strength doesn't lead to the team having the puck more than not, what good does it do?

 

[Zil]

If you have a strong team with no skill, you suffer. If your team is full of undersized skill players, the problem continues. Look at how the MSL-Brassard-Zuccarello line performed.

Strength helps. So does having a guy on your team who you know will have your back.

Nobody makes fun of acquiring big guys who can actually play. "Toffness" gets brought out for people like Tanner Glass. If you think Tanner Glass makes us better, then you are just wrong.

 

[Fitzy]

It really depends on your criteria for "better," Zil.

 

[Thirty One]

It really depends on your criteria for "better," Zil.

How many different criteria are there?

 

[Savant]

Nobody makes fun of acquiring big guys who can actually play. "Toffness" gets brought out for people like Tanner Glass. If you think Tanner Glass makes us better, then you are just wrong.

I don't think Glass makes the Rangers better, but AV seems to like him and trust him, and he isn't going anywhere. Yes the contract is atrocious but it feels as much of an AV signing as a Sather signing so I am not ready to say Glen wasted money on a goon yet. We don't know what Carcillo's asking price is, he could be asking more than Glass. The Rangers do not have a Glass in their system though.

 

[Fitzy]

How many different criteria are there?

Not everything can be reduced to a number. No matter how badly we'd like that to be the case.

 

[Rick Nash 61]

I really want the Rangers to sign Ribeiro (at a 1 yr 1-2 MM contract). Not comfortable at all with J.T. he did not show enough last season to be the starting 3rd line center this year.

 

[Fitzy]

Is Tanner Glass really going to be the story of the season on this board when things don't go well?

 

[Fitzy]

I really want the Rangers to sign Ribeiro (at a 1 yr 1-2 MM contract). Not comfortable at all with J.T. he did not show enough last season to be the starting 3rd line center this year.

I imagine they'll let players fight over the position in camp. Dominic Moore is always there in case no one plays well enough for the spot.

 

[Rick Nash 61]

I imagine they'll let players fight over the position in camp. Dominic Moore is always there in case no one plays well enough for the spot.

Yeah that is probably the case but that's weak if neither JT or Lindberg pan out and Dom is our 3. You know Ribeiro is going to put up points and he can be had for almost nothing.

 

[Raspewtin]

Is Tanner Glass really going to be the story of the season on this board when things don't go well?

Of course it is. And it might be for good reason.

The 4th lines heroics is why we won a handful of games, and got as deep as we did in the playoffs. Essentially replacing Boyle with Glass is a true downgrade, that hurts the line as a whole.

Yeah that is probably the case but that's weak if neither JT or Lindberg pan out and Dom is our 3. You know Ribeiro is going to put up points and he can be had for almost nothing.

As much as I'd like to believe it's this easy, Ribeiro got bought out on the team with the tightest budget in the league. He has to have been a REAL problem for that to have happened.

 

[Thirty One]

Not everything can be reduced to a number. No matter how badly we'd like that to be the case.

In my mind, a team is better if it has a better chance of winning game in and game out. How would you define it?

 

[TheTakedown]

Of course it is. And it might be for good reason.

The 4th lines heroics is why we won a handful of games, and got as deep as we did in the playoffs. Essentially replacing Boyle with Glass is a true downgrade, that hurts the line as a whole.



As much as I'd like to believe it's this easy, Ribeiro got bought out on the team with the tightest budget in the league. He has to have been a REAL problem for that to have happened.

Glass replaces Dorsett, not Boyle...

There's someone else who will have to step into the spot opened by his absence, or a FA signing will ensue...

I think we'll see some more signings after the arbitration/contracts are taken care of for our RFA's

 

[Zil]

It really depends on your criteria for "better," Zil.

My criteria for better is winning more hockey games. I don't know whether that satisfies your epistemological nature, but I'm after the Stanley Cup, not nirvana.

Not everything can be reduced to a number. No matter how badly we'd like that to be the case.

In life this is true. But in sports basically everything boils down to numbers. At the most basic level, every game is a trial in a probability exercise.

Is Tanner Glass really going to be the story of the season on this board when things don't go well?

You're the one who went after the "toffness" people. Show me one time it has been broken out for anyone other than goons and lumbering veterans who can't play anymore.

I don't think Glass makes the Rangers better, but AV seems to like him and trust him, and he isn't going anywhere. Yes the contract is atrocious but it feels as much of an AV signing as a Sather signing so I am not ready to say Glen wasted money on a goon yet. We don't know what Carcillo's asking price is, he could be asking more than Glass. The Rangers do not have a Glass in their system though.

Glass doesn't just maintain status quo. He makes the team worse. We're not talking about some kid here. He's a 30 year old who couldn't entering his eighth season in the league. He is what he is: A lousy hockey player. If he was at all capable of helping a team, then he wouldn't have been scratched for most of the series against us despite Pittsburgh being starved for forward depth.

The Rangers do not have a Glass in their system though.

Thank goodness for that. I prefer they focus on developing actual hockey players.

 

[Fitzy]

In my mind, a team is better if it has a better chance of winning game in and game out. How would you define it?

I'd answer but I genuinely don't think it'd satisfy you at all. So it becomes something of a pointless venture. It's based more on my time in a locker room than my time spent in econometrics class. I can't argue thoroughly with people whose only methodology is statistically based.

 

[Fitzy]

Yeah that is probably the case but that's weak if neither JT or Lindberg pan out and Dom is our 3. You know Ribeiro is going to put up points and he can be had for almost nothing.

He may well be, but I think the agenda of management right now is to build a proper team culture.

I don't know Mike personally, but the fact that we haven't signed him yet indicated to me that we won't. I believe the stories that we're probing for a trade right now.