I wouldn't mind a vet or two before the POs, I wouldn't mind taking a shot on Riberio either. But, I think the only way really to add a lot of value to the franchise is to let the kids play.
Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread
- Thread starter BBKers
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
I wouldn't mind a vet or two before the POs, I wouldn't mind taking a shot on Riberio either. But, I think the only way really to add a lot of value to the franchise is to let the kids play.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
They signed two guys for 600K each that will be the 12th and 13th forwards. The 4th line is now cost controlled, a top 9 winger is needed.
The Rangers are going to have about 2 million in cap space after the RFAs are signed. They aren't going to waste that on a 4th line winger when Mueller will be able to fill that role, and be a versatile player, with the ability to take faceoffs and kill penalties.
Fast, at this stage of his career, would not be an upgrade over anyone on the roster, including Glass. Fast is smart and has some skill, but he doesn't do anything with it right now. He should be in Hartford developing.
Tarnasky for 600K can fill the role of 13th forward and healthy scratch. Maybe the Rangers just don't want Carcillo back at a higher cap hit. If there is an injury one of the Hartford kids can be recalled. Tarnasky would be there for emergencies.
Penner is slow. Rangers shouldn't waste their time on guys who won't fit the system. He is always out of shape and he is another lefty. Rangers should target another righty if possible, someone who can skate.
Setoguchi or Stempniak would fit. And after that there would be a little less than a million in cap space left to operate with.
There won't be any room to make vast improvements.
If we went out an added a "#1 center" it would cost major assets and major cap space, and it would create holes that we would no longer have cap space to fill.
Ribeiro has some talent, but he seems hell bent on no longer being an option for any NHL club because of his attitude. He is 34 years old so there is no real incentive for a club to waste their time and valuable cap space on a guy who may or may not act out. Immature.
Rangers lost Richards and Boyle. Adding a guy like Ribeiro could be problematic. Stempniak could be a good fit, and stop gap.
It's time for J.T. Miller to take ownership of a center spot. He is good on faceoffs, he plays physical, he has skill, he has size, he plays with effort.
I fear the "big move" and the ramifications on the rest of the lineup. We can go into the season with a more balanced lineup, or blow our load on a big fish and be top heavy, which doesn't work in the playoffs.
The Rangers are going to have about 2 million in cap space after the RFAs are signed. They aren't going to waste that on a 4th line winger when Mueller will be able to fill that role, and be a versatile player, with the ability to take faceoffs and kill penalties.
Fast, at this stage of his career, would not be an upgrade over anyone on the roster, including Glass. Fast is smart and has some skill, but he doesn't do anything with it right now. He should be in Hartford developing.
Tarnasky for 600K can fill the role of 13th forward and healthy scratch. Maybe the Rangers just don't want Carcillo back at a higher cap hit. If there is an injury one of the Hartford kids can be recalled. Tarnasky would be there for emergencies.
Penner is slow. Rangers shouldn't waste their time on guys who won't fit the system. He is always out of shape and he is another lefty. Rangers should target another righty if possible, someone who can skate.
Setoguchi or Stempniak would fit. And after that there would be a little less than a million in cap space left to operate with.
There won't be any room to make vast improvements.
If we went out an added a "#1 center" it would cost major assets and major cap space, and it would create holes that we would no longer have cap space to fill.
Ribeiro has some talent, but he seems hell bent on no longer being an option for any NHL club because of his attitude. He is 34 years old so there is no real incentive for a club to waste their time and valuable cap space on a guy who may or may not act out. Immature.
Rangers lost Richards and Boyle. Adding a guy like Ribeiro could be problematic. Stempniak could be a good fit, and stop gap.
It's time for J.T. Miller to take ownership of a center spot. He is good on faceoffs, he plays physical, he has skill, he has size, he plays with effort.
I fear the "big move" and the ramifications on the rest of the lineup. We can go into the season with a more balanced lineup, or blow our load on a big fish and be top heavy, which doesn't work in the playoffs.
LaffyTaffyNYR
Registered User
- Feb 25, 2012
- 17,113
- 2,662
with our center problems.. why wouldn't we take a chance on Ribiero on a 1 year deal? worst case scenario is he acts like he's been and Miller takes his spot anyway. there's no risk.. the Rangers have a ton of good leadership in their locker room that I don't think he would hurt it at all.
Let's all Forget about Ribeiro. Would like to see Setoguchi or Stempiak at one year / 1.33 or 2 yrs / 1.2, along those lines. Would really love Setoguchi to come in and have a Satheresque reemergence. That gives us F (for now) with about 1 mil + in cap space (didn't run the numbers - assuming RFAs come in where they should):
Krieder Step MSL
MZA Brasard Nash
Hagelin Miller Seto/Stemp
Glass (ouch) Moore Fast
(Mueller)
I'm ok with this, it's better than how we started last season when Poopie, MZA, Dom Moore, Kreider, Richie were unknown quantities but worse than how we finished when all of those unknowns were answered positively. Also leaves opportunity for a Fast promotion to 3rd line or Lindberg/Kristo/bourques to get into the mix. Moore and miller could also swap depending on situation, earned ice time. Leaves HTF depth. Competitive now and into the future are how the perennially good teams operate.
Krieder Step MSL
MZA Brasard Nash
Hagelin Miller Seto/Stemp
Glass (ouch) Moore Fast
(Mueller)
I'm ok with this, it's better than how we started last season when Poopie, MZA, Dom Moore, Kreider, Richie were unknown quantities but worse than how we finished when all of those unknowns were answered positively. Also leaves opportunity for a Fast promotion to 3rd line or Lindberg/Kristo/bourques to get into the mix. Moore and miller could also swap depending on situation, earned ice time. Leaves HTF depth. Competitive now and into the future are how the perennially good teams operate.
Inferno
Registered User
silverfish
got perma'd
From what I'm gathering, if the Rangers wanted to sign any of the FA's in the market, they'd have signed them by now. That, or they're waiting to see who will come in on a PTO.
Other than that, at least from those Jim Cerny chats, it seems the Rangers are exploring trades. I don't know with what cap space, but it doesn't sound like we're done.
And if we are done, I do not share the FO's confidence in allowing just Miller and Lindberg to battle for 3C. That would be an absolute crime.
Mueller will win a spot on the fourth line or as 13th F. If he can't, someone cheap or Carcillo will come in as the 13th forward. Kostka will be the 7th D.
The top 9, wingers and centers, is a crap shoot at this moment. Hard to speculate, but I'm curious to see what Sather has up his sleeve because there is no way the Rangers are done.
haveandare
Registered User
Why would that be so bad? Miller has, in my opinion, done everything required of a player before they are a legitimate candidate to battle for a spot in camp.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
- 13,694
- 1,493
See that's the problem. He's done everything but perform when called up....
Plays great on the pack...plays terribly in the NHL...
I would hope he realizes that this is his time to make it or be traded..
Miller has not been terrible . If he starts the yr he will be confident and do well. Plus he's a better C not a rw
I'd hate to think that 21-22 yrs old is make it or break it time for anyone He'll get a shot by default and let's hope he makes the best of it. I'm a believer in him just not sure what role yet.
The gangsta style typically is not considered a good look in this league. It's not how the locker rooms roll. Plus I'm not an advanced stats guy but remember seeing something a while back of how ***** he is 5v5. He's a PP specialist which is not a bad thing for us but not for the baggage. Let's face it, if Maloney sends you home and eats your contract, you have serious issues. Next stop Florida or KHL.
I agree.
If McIlrath fails, so be it.
But we need now give him every opportunity to advance, ample basis to limit he is only a failure --- which I do not see at this point.
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
- Jul 9, 2007
- 19,977
- 13,636
I like this guy.
The Rangers made the trade for Nash and were a very top heavy team. It took 30 games before Sather traded Gaborik to get depth back. Giving up young, cost controlled assets to trade for a guy like Thornton or Staal isn't good for this team moving forward. We already tried it and it didn't work.
The Rangers got to the finals last season because they were balanced and everyone had a role. Henrik Lundqvist is lifting the Cup if Nash filled his role. Everyone else filled their's admirably.
This year we'll have to deal with the growing pains of Miller or Lindberg as a top 9 center. Maybe sign Stempniak or Setoguchi for another right handed scoring threat until a prospect is ready, but that's about it.
haveandare
Registered User
He didn't look terrible to me - looked like a kid trying to put it all together on the highest level possible.
Did we already forget what Callahan for example looked like at first? It's not an easy transition. You don't give up on guys because they take a little time to hit their NHL stride. You'd trade nearly every prospect you draft in that case.
If they trade him, it'll be a huge mistake. Huge. They have almost 0 center depth in their prospect pool and he's very nearly nhl ready if he's not already. You need young guys playing above their ELCs - if you can get one who is also a center that's all the better.
silverfish
got perma'd
It's not a "battle" between Miller and Lindberg; not because Lindberg won't give Miller a run for his money, but because it's not enough bodies. The same thing happened when we handed Kreider a top-6 LW spot in camp and he failed and needed to go back to the Pack.
I don't think Miller is ready at all. I haven't seen any consistency from him at the NHL level that shows he should just be handed a shot like that playing a pivotal role on this team as he'll have to handle Zuccarello or MSL as his RWer. A lot to ask from a kid with just 10 points in 56 career games. He's been given shot after shot to succeed and stick at the NHL level and he hasn't yet. I hope this year he is able to do it because we need him to, I just hope the FO has a strong contingency plan in place if he can't.
haveandare
Registered User
I'm not sure I agree that playing with a fantastic winger is asking a lot. Playing with nobody is asking a lot. Playing with Zucc or MSL is like being handed a present if you're Miller IMO.
I hope they have a plan in case he can't make it too, but I have confidence in him making it. It's one thing to get yanked up and down when the team was set without you and you're the first call up. It's another thing to come to camp with a real chance of gaining a spot on day 1 and not being a backup plan.
It seems to me that to address the center ice position, we need either
a) A legitimate first line center to bump Stepan down to 2C
or
b) A third line center capable of giving the kind of 45-55 point production that Richards gave us to help balance our attack (basically having 3 2nd line centers instead of a 1-2-3)
As most of you know, I'm all for a big trade to bring in Eric Staal (if CAR eats 15-20% of his salary) or a smaller trade to bring in Joe Thornton.
If neither of those options come to fruition, would anyone consider Vinny Lecavalier as our 3C if Philly becomes so desperate to move him that they absorb 15-20% of his salary in trading him to us for a 5th round pick, for example?
Lecavalier is a similar player to Richards at this point in their careers, and despite the back issues, I'd venture to say that Lecavalier actually has more potential to have a bounce-back season.
If Philly retained 20% of his salary, his cap-hit for us would be 3.6 million.
Kreider Stepan St. Louis
Nash Brassard Zuccarello
Hagelin Lecavalier Kristo/Haggerty/Miller
Glass Moore Lindberg
Lecavalier could either play 3C with Hagelin and Kristo/Haggerty on the wings, or Miller could win the 3C spot and play with Hagelin on the left and Lecavalier on the 3rd line RW.
Although, I'm not sure Philly wouldn't be able to find a destination for him that wouldn't include trading him to a hated rival while paying part of his salary / cap-hit. And if we're looking for a veteran 3C option to produce similarly to Richards' 40-50 points, there are likely cheaper alternatives such as Derek Roy or even *gasp* Saku Koivu.
I guess it's really just because of my obsession with former TBL players and I've always wanted Vinny on Broadway. I would've loved to acquire him 6-7 years ago.
After writing this post, I guess it doesn't really make much sense to look into acquiring Lecavalier, and it's highly unlikely the Flyers would ever trade him here while retaining salary especially anyway.
However, I still maintain my claim that we should be seriously looking to acquire that top flight 1C, and Eric Staal and Joe Thornton seem to be the two names that are actually somewhat available and would make sense on this team (E. Staal of course, only if CAR was willing to retain at least 15-20% of his enormous cap-hit, and Thornton of course, only if the cost to acquire him was no more than a couple of prospects and maybe 1 roster player like Brassard (to make the cap-space available).
Blah, I'm so bored. Is it October yet?
a) A legitimate first line center to bump Stepan down to 2C
or
b) A third line center capable of giving the kind of 45-55 point production that Richards gave us to help balance our attack (basically having 3 2nd line centers instead of a 1-2-3)
As most of you know, I'm all for a big trade to bring in Eric Staal (if CAR eats 15-20% of his salary) or a smaller trade to bring in Joe Thornton.
If neither of those options come to fruition, would anyone consider Vinny Lecavalier as our 3C if Philly becomes so desperate to move him that they absorb 15-20% of his salary in trading him to us for a 5th round pick, for example?
Lecavalier is a similar player to Richards at this point in their careers, and despite the back issues, I'd venture to say that Lecavalier actually has more potential to have a bounce-back season.
If Philly retained 20% of his salary, his cap-hit for us would be 3.6 million.
Kreider Stepan St. Louis
Nash Brassard Zuccarello
Hagelin Lecavalier Kristo/Haggerty/Miller
Glass Moore Lindberg
Lecavalier could either play 3C with Hagelin and Kristo/Haggerty on the wings, or Miller could win the 3C spot and play with Hagelin on the left and Lecavalier on the 3rd line RW.
Although, I'm not sure Philly wouldn't be able to find a destination for him that wouldn't include trading him to a hated rival while paying part of his salary / cap-hit. And if we're looking for a veteran 3C option to produce similarly to Richards' 40-50 points, there are likely cheaper alternatives such as Derek Roy or even *gasp* Saku Koivu.
I guess it's really just because of my obsession with former TBL players and I've always wanted Vinny on Broadway. I would've loved to acquire him 6-7 years ago.
After writing this post, I guess it doesn't really make much sense to look into acquiring Lecavalier, and it's highly unlikely the Flyers would ever trade him here while retaining salary especially anyway.
However, I still maintain my claim that we should be seriously looking to acquire that top flight 1C, and Eric Staal and Joe Thornton seem to be the two names that are actually somewhat available and would make sense on this team (E. Staal of course, only if CAR was willing to retain at least 15-20% of his enormous cap-hit, and Thornton of course, only if the cost to acquire him was no more than a couple of prospects and maybe 1 roster player like Brassard (to make the cap-space available).
Blah, I'm so bored. Is it October yet?
Lundqvist, McD, Stralman and that's about it when it came to players filling their roles, IMHO. Scapegoating Nash is lame. There was a lot of blame to go around.
The Rangers may not have to deplete the team to bring in a big gun. LA has 2 Cups and has a lot of name talent they acquired from other teams. Chicago and Boston didn't have to go down that road. Different recipes exist for success.
I strongly feel that Lindberg has just as good of a shot (if not better) than Miller at grabbing that 3C spot out of camp.
I like Lindberg's overall game more than Miller's. He seems more mature defensively, very calm with and without the puck, and his offensive skills are underrated (or untapped potential is probably the better term).
I'm rooting for Lindberg to make the team. I also would love to see Hagelin and Lindberg (fellow Swedes) find some magic chemistry together on the third line
- Sep 1, 2010
- 10,036
- 8,007
Miller is still really young, he shouldn't have been the young callup F every time.
Personally i'd like to give him a full season in a top 6, all situations and leadership role w HWP to improve all aspects of his game.
These 3 years since drafted have been crazy - deciding late to play OHL rather than NCAA at No Dak, then turning pro but also being a leader with USA U20 at Worlds, then back to AHL with a couple looks under Torts, than last year being called up often but always on a short leash under AV.
I believe in Lindberg, he performed well vs men his final year in Sweden, even MVP in playoffs. He's a natural center with 2-way skills.
With Fast, Hrivik, Mueller, Kristo, Bourque, and Tarnasky to back-fill particular roles as/when needed (or even Nicholls. St Croix, Haggerty or McCarthy if they earn it), Miller can focus on leading the turnaround of Wolfpack. He'll become better pro that way
Personally i'd like to give him a full season in a top 6, all situations and leadership role w HWP to improve all aspects of his game.
These 3 years since drafted have been crazy - deciding late to play OHL rather than NCAA at No Dak, then turning pro but also being a leader with USA U20 at Worlds, then back to AHL with a couple looks under Torts, than last year being called up often but always on a short leash under AV.
I believe in Lindberg, he performed well vs men his final year in Sweden, even MVP in playoffs. He's a natural center with 2-way skills.
With Fast, Hrivik, Mueller, Kristo, Bourque, and Tarnasky to back-fill particular roles as/when needed (or even Nicholls. St Croix, Haggerty or McCarthy if they earn it), Miller can focus on leading the turnaround of Wolfpack. He'll become better pro that way
Last edited:
I agree, but the fact remains that if Nash scored even half a point per game throughout the playoffs, we'd likely be celebrating a Stanley Cup championship right now.
But I definitely agree about there not being only one recipe for building a successful team.
And I believe that the cost to acquire either Joe Thornton or Eric Staal (assuming CAR retains at least 15-20% salary) would not be as crazy as some have guessed.
Thornton could possibly be had for a package around Brassard, McIlrath, Kristo, while I believe E. Staal could be had for about the same as his massive cap-hit actually lowers his value to some degree as it's burdensome to take that on when trying to build a competitive team.
I do fantasize about seeing a monster line of Kreider-E.Staal-Nash. Who would be able to contain that line down low in the offensive zone? That's like 700 pounds and an average height of 6'4"
silverfish
got perma'd
Of course it is. If he's a detriment offensively to that line, we're going to need to bring someone else in to make sure we're getting effective production from MSL or Zucc.
I had a post a while back that I'm too lazy to re-research. I tried to dig it up but it's not in my last 20 pages of posts on this site (I need to spend less time here
). I did the research that showed when Miller was in the game, offensive production for Zuccarello and Brassard plummeted. Pouliot was unchanged. This team, as constructed today, can't afford to have Zuccarello's production fall below 50 points because Miller is on his line or his center, nor can it happen to MSL (Not sure what kind of production we are expecting from him this season). If we're going to be weak down the middle starting JT, we're going to need our wingers to step up big time. From Kredier to Hagelin to Nash to Zuccs to Marty.
Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Hagelin - Miller - MSL
(Loktionov) - Brassard - Zuccarello
Glass - Moore - Mueller
2nd and 3rd lines are interchangeable. I think Loktionov (good possession stats like Pouliot, only decent size, not great) could be a good fit with Brass and Zuccarello. A potential long playoff run may live or die on JT Miller becoming an effective pivot this year. Again, we can't afford to have down year's from our wingers. Goalie and defense will be there, on par with last year and better offensively from the blue line I'm sure.
As always, shouldn't speculate on forward lines because who knows what the FO is thinking, especially if they're thinking trade.
You win with goaltending, defensive depth, and centers (in that order) in this league. That's my belief.
- Status
