Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part III

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I'm pretty sure he wont play all season on the top line, considering his age. In fact it could hurt the team in the long run.

I remember how Marty had to catch his breath several times in the playoffs, had some very short shifts. When you're 20 you don't think about this..

It's not the minutes as they are the same in AV's system, but as others said, the pressure and workload of facing opponents top lines all the time.

It makes sense to have a rookie or two on MSL's line.

I just mean to say MSL won't want top line minutes is crazy. He's the type of player who wants the game on his stick, wants to play until his legs won't work anymore.

 

[RangerBoy]

Derek Stepan got married last night.

Stu Bickel was at the wedding. He tweeted a picture of him and Kreider

https://twitter.com/StuBickel/status/498300173421133825

Bickel signed with the Wild.

 

[silverfish]

Derek Stepan got married last night.

Stu Bickel was at the wedding. He tweeted a picture of him and Kreider

https://twitter.com/StuBickel/status/498300173421133825

Bickel signed with the Wild.

Did he marry the chick that looks just like his mom? Kids got a bit of an Oedipal complex. Can't blame him, though.

Congrats to Stepan! One of my favorite Rangers for sure.

 

[Wolfy*]

A bird told me this will be Rangers lines on opening night

Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Stempniak - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - Miller - MSL
Glass - Moore - Fast

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

A bird told me this will be Rangers lines on opening night

Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Stempniak - Brassard - Zuccarello
Hagelin - Miller - MSL
Glass - Moore - Fast

Your bird didn't really go far out on his limb, did he...?

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Somehow, i don't see Fast (who needs to develop physically and offensively) beating out Lombardi (who signed for two years, can play in any situation, and can play all three forward positions) for a spot.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

There are only a few teams with a set roster for opening night, and the Rangers aren't one of them.

Camp is there for reasons.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Somehow, i don't see Fast (who needs to develop physically and offensively) beating out Lombardi (who signed for two years, can play in any situation, and can play all three forward positions) for a spot.

Yeah I agree with this the vet will probably win the spot.

 

[AHB*]

I really am completely dumbfounded as to why the Rangers didn't wait until the market fleshed out to sign a 4th line guy instead of Glass. Knowing that Penner and others are still out there and will get 1 million or less is going to kill me when Glass ***** the bed this year.

 

[AHB*]

MSL is our best finisher.

He's not playing with Miller (at least certainly not to start the season)

He's not playing 3rd line minutes.

It wouldn't matter even if he preferred 3rd line minutes. It's AV's choice on what he feels is best for the team, and since MSL is still our best finisher and arguably our best overall offensive player, he's not going to be anywhere but in the top-6 with our other top offensive players.

This delusion that MSL is here to hold the hands of rookies is out of touch with reality. He doesn't need to play on the same line as a third-line rookie trying to discover how he fits in at the NHL level in order to be a mentor / lead by example.

Ok, this is not rocket science.

You do realize that MSL was technically on the "third line" when he was here last year, right?

This Rangers team is not top heavy. They are balanced. Which is why one of Zucc, Nash or MSL will be on the de facto, "3rd line." When in actuality, they are all potential 1st line wingers. In reality, it will be

Line 1
Line 2A
Line 2B
Line 4.

Also, every post you make has a hostile tone. You should really work on that. It's annoying. You're not a "know it all" about this team. We all have differing opinions but we're all hoping for the same thing. I'm here to discuss a thing I love in an environment with other people who love it as much as I do. Think of it as sharing ideas, instead of I"M RIGHT YOU"RE WRONG ARGHHHHH.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Ok, this is not rocket science.

You do realize that MSL was technically on the "third line" when he was here last year, right?

This Rangers team is not top heavy. They are balanced. Which is why one of Zucc, Nash or MSL will be on the de facto, "3rd line." When in actuality, they are all potential 1st line wingers. In reality, it will be

Line 1
Line 2A
Line 2B
Line 4.

Also, every post you make has a hostile tone. You should really work on that. It's annoying. You're not a "know it all" about this team. We all have differing opinions but we're all hoping for the same thing. I'm here to discuss a thing I love in an environment with other people who love it as much as I do. Think of it as sharing ideas, instead of I"M RIGHT YOU"RE WRONG ARGHHHHH.

lol, all he does is act like a dick and then when people are dicks back to him he's like OMG WHY ARE YOU BEING SUCH A JERK I DIDN'T O ANYTHING

 

[Wolfy*]

I really am completely dumbfounded as to why the Rangers didn't wait until the market fleshed out to sign a 4th line guy instead of Glass. Knowing that Penner and others are still out there and will get 1 million or less is going to kill me when Glass ***** the bed this year.

It's the element of toffnuss, with Dorsett and Carcillo gone we'd be a complete sissy team without Glass.

Somehow, i don't see Fast (who needs to develop physically and offensively) beating out Lombardi (who signed for two years, can play in any situation, and can play all three forward positions) for a spot.

Lombardi hasn't played in the NHL since April 2013, I believe he'll be on the roster but start on the bench.

As for Fast, it's time for him to break through. He's been around for a while and should be given a chance now. But camp will tell if he's ready or not.

 

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

Ok, this is not rocket science.

You do realize that MSL was technically on the "third line" when he was here last year, right?

This Rangers team is not top heavy. They are balanced. Which is why one of Zucc, Nash or MSL will be on the de facto, "3rd line." When in actuality, they are all potential 1st line wingers. In reality, it will be

Line 1
Line 2A
Line 2B
Line 4.

Also, every post you make has a hostile tone. You should really work on that. It's annoying. You're not a "know it all" about this team. We all have differing opinions but we're all hoping for the same thing. I'm here to discuss a thing I love in an environment with other people who love it as much as I do. Think of it as sharing ideas, instead of I"M RIGHT YOU"RE WRONG ARGHHHHH.

Excellent post, I concur

 

[bernmeister]

We may eventually find out that this one has better chemistry with that one, and we can update accordingly based on best results.

But as for a first step, we should allow for most complementary unifying of talents so there can be a synergistic effect. That is, we may find out a natural pivot with a guy who takes the boards with a winger who is a scorer is the best fit. However, we may find out that matching Hags with MSL and the right C is good best because with each being SO fast, they can really press the opposition.

Who is the right C there? Miller is not as fast but fast, and not as big as Kreider or Hayes (who may sign here and be a fit with Kreider for a big, power line), but he is big enough.

go for power w/power
speed w/speed
keep Brass w/Zuc

trade Stepan/+ for major profit.

 

[THE BIG WHISTLE]

We may eventually find out that this one has better chemistry with that one, and we can update accordingly based on best results.

But as for a first step, we should allow for most complementary unifying of talents so there can be a synergistic effect. That is, we may find out a natural pivot with a guy who takes the boards with a winger who is a scorer is the best fit. However, we may find out that matching Hags with MSL and the right C is good best because with each being SO fast, they can really press the opposition.

Who is the right C there? Miller is not as fast but fast, and not as big as Kreider or Hayes (who may sign here and be a fit with Kreider for a big, power line), but he is big enough.

go for power w/power
speed w/speed
keep Brass w/Zuc

trade Stepan/+ for major profit.

You were ok until the Stepan trade, let's trade our best center

 

[bernmeister]

I think I do something along the lines of Staal for Kadri. Girardi not so much.

You are not adjusting.

Increase Staal because once cap is available, extending Marc will increase his value.

Decrease Girardi because atm, only place we think he'd waive for is Leafs, thus if we get Kadri for Girardi, setting aside other factors, mere fact that Kadri can be flipped for anyone but itself if worth the deal, regardless of whether we keep Kadri at C, play on W, or deal him elsewhere [theoretically a movable asset is more valuable than a comparable talent but which is a non-movable].

IMO, both have strengths, but skating of Staal mirroring Crosby >>> to shotblocking, etc. of Girardi.

But again, Girardi is only asset for us or maybe Leafs, being a fit atm.
Minute they don't need him we are stuck with Danny boy, move now while we can.

 

[AHB*]

We may eventually find out that this one has better chemistry with that one, and we can update accordingly based on best results.

But as for a first step, we should allow for most complementary unifying of talents so there can be a synergistic effect. That is, we may find out a natural pivot with a guy who takes the boards with a winger who is a scorer is the best fit. However, we may find out that matching Hags with MSL and the right C is good best because with each being SO fast, they can really press the opposition.

Who is the right C there? Miller is not as fast but fast, and not as big as Kreider or Hayes (who may sign here and be a fit with Kreider for a big, power line), but he is big enough.

go for power w/power
speed w/speed
keep Brass w/Zuc

trade Stepan/+ for major profit.

Lol at Hayes. The guy will probably top out as a 3rd line winger. Which is great and all. We should sign him if possible, but he's not a major answer and certainly will not be a top line power forward.

 

[bernmeister]

Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Sometimes people disagree with you and it's not because they "don't see the big picture" or don't "speak the truth" or don't understand the basic concept of trades following trades.

I get all that. I just don't like that deal, and I think that D is a huge step down, a way larger step down than the boost the offense would get from Kadri.

They get Kadri, then what? Now they can trade a center. Miller is the most obvious choice since Kadri would likely take the spot he's going to try to earn. Miller for ____, a player who defrays/neutralizes/surpasses the weak D problem? That's a real long shot. The team can't afford to add more future assets IMO.

It's not like the names in question here are unknown. If Kadri comes, we know who's here now, we know who he'd likely make expendable. How do any of those guys turn into a D that knocks Boyle and/or Klein back to their rightful spots?

And I just disagree about how bad that D would be. Both Klein and Boyle are playing above their heads in that setup IMO, and very likely one of the rookies as well. We just saw what McD can do when he's got a partner that he's at the least comfortable with. Not sure I'd task him to babysit Klein or Boyle next year. I think Girardi is suffering from the HFNYR ethos where the last thing you did is the thing that defines your career until you do something else. Girardi wasn't good in the SCF, and now he's dead-weight to many posts. Not unlike Dubi after his bad playoffs. Not unlike Gaborik after his bad playoffs. Sometimes good players have bad stretches.

Sometimes people disagree with you and it's not because they "don't see the big picture" or don't "speak the truth" or don't understand the basic concept of trades following trades.
I get all that. I just don't like that deal,

Fair enough

and I think that D is a huge step down, a way larger step down than the boost the offense would get from Kadri.

They get Kadri, then what?

We look at what is the best total plan to use all of our assets. Maybe keep Kadri, maybe not. Would have to compare returns for Stepan/+, Brassard/+,Kadri/+, Miller/+ and see what if any of those are best. Maybe we deal a W, move Dom Moore to W, and those are the 4 Cs we roll with.

Now they can trade a center.

likely extrapolation.

Miller is the most obvious choice since Kadri would likely take the spot he's going to try to earn.

Not so fast. Miller may not be the rocket of Kreider/Hags/MSL, but he is our fastest natural C. not so sure that is the best option, though I'd listen to offers.

Miller for ____, a player who defrays/neutralizes/surpasses the weak D problem? That's a real long shot.

If we did go that route, one possibility is Sabres Mark Pysyk. In discussions on boards, this was well received.

The team can't afford to add more future assets IMO.

view it as constantly trying to change our current assets into more productive ones, preferably building in an affordability component. Sometimes that is "futures", sometimes not.

It's not like the names in question here are unknown. If Kadri comes, we know who's here now, we know who he'd likely make expendable. How do any of those guys turn into a D that knocks Boyle and/or Klein back to their rightful spots?

Too many combos to do that quickly.
But I don't doubt it can be done. Clubs want to come out ahead. If you offer legit comparable value, then are reasonably willing to overpay to make it worth their while, a partner will surrender the desired player. But the more up the ladder the player, the more you have to be willing to overpay.

Miller for Pysyk is not a deal I prefer doing, would rather check out all options. But it is one I could live with.

My point is if the D is as bad as you say --- and I disagree there --- then we have options going forward to recover.

And I just disagree about how bad that D would be. Both Klein and Boyle are playing above their heads in that setup IMO, and very likely one of the rookies as well. We just saw what McD can do when he's got a partner that he's at the least comfortable with. Not sure I'd task him to babysit Klein or Boyle next year.

Boyle is a 1 dimensional + luxury, I would not have signed him. We ARE stuck with him, all the more reason to move Girardi while we can.

All Boyle's minutes will be first pair/PP.
Klein can play 2, a few minutes at first pair will not implode the universe.
Connor Allen is a better skater than Klein, I think, so my hunch is if he also is only gonna do a few mins on first pair, that will also be ok.

The key is the unknown McIlrath.
Can he handle 3rd pair now? We don't know, but have to give him this year, we are all in on him. we don't want to give up too soon and have him wind up as a belligerent backliner with a grudge in a year or 2.

We are only asking him to be shutdown, stay at home 3rd pair, I am optimistic he can handle it.

I think Girardi is suffering from the HFNYR ethos where the last thing you did is the thing that defines your career until you do something else. Girardi wasn't good in the SCF, and now he's dead-weight to many posts. Not unlike Dubi after his bad playoffs. Not unlike Gaborik after his bad playoffs. Sometimes good players have bad stretches.

Have constantly pushed for his trade during both good and off periods.
Not diss on the player.
Quite simply, felt the value received would be higher and worth it, as we need more horses, and he would fetch, not quite a stable, but more than what he brings.

Now that he is both NMC and merely reasonable (no longer a bargain) at 5m per, it behooves us to deal him while we can to the one location he may go. The flexibility alone is worth it, as long as the return is decently acceptable. Kadri is.

Sorry this was late in responding.
I will add what I can when I can but will be swamped for 2ish/+ weeks.
Hope to have a terrific surprise for all at that time.

 

[aufheben]

Ok, again, the match ups are important, not just the TOI. Of course Poo-Brass-Zucc looks like a great line against the other team's worst defenders. Just because you roll 4 lines doesn't mean they all don't have clearly defined roles.

 

[silverfish]

Shots fired:

Currently, stat geeks are tracking shot attempts, among other events, as a possession facsimile. If one team takes more shots (on net, missed, and blocked) than the other, it’s probably controlling the puck and creating more scoring chances.

The resulting stat is Corsi. It’s gaining traction among casual hockey observers. The analytics community would consider Corsi cute. These are guys who use phrases such as Poisson-like, Gaussian regularization methods, and shrinkage behavior (the latter being unrelated to Brad Richards’s Stanley Cup Final play).

NHL on brink of intelligence explosion

-31-, let's jump on this bandwagon now and open a sports consulting firm based on analytic observation.

You in?

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Ok, again, the match ups are important, not just the TOI. Of course Poo-Brass-Zucc looks like a great line against the other team's worst defenders. Just because you roll 4 lines doesn't mean they all don't have clearly defined roles.

And thats where the depth comes in. This team was in 13-14, and will continue to be in 14-15, a team that scores by committee.

For that reason, Vigneault distributed, and by educated guess, will continue to distribute the offensive talent evenly amongst the top three lines. The one particular poster has an agenda, but fortunately the coaching staff's agenda is to win games. The idea is to make the "3rd" line as strong and effective in its role as the "1st" line is in its role.

I could care less what the lines are, as long as there are three lines that score and a "4th" line that can skate a regular shift and provide forechecking pressure, and play a shut-down role as well.

Kreider-Stepan-St.Louis/Nash
Hagelin-Miller-Nash/St.Louis
Stempniak-Brassard-Zuccarello
Glass-Moore-Lombardi

As an example, is a way to distribute the talent and create depth.

One thing is certain, this coaching staff is not going to carry a line that can't contribute.

And this coaching staff doesn't seem to label lines "1", "2", "3". Who ever is playing well that night gets the ice time. But generally speaking the ATOI is relatively even amongst the top three lines.

 

[aufheben]

You can call them whatever the **** you want, but each line has a clearly defined role under AV.

We use 3 scoring lines, and out of those 3, Brassard's line got the easiest match ups; What the **** else are you supposed to call it? It is what it is.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

You can call them whatever the **** you want, but each line has a clearly defined role under AV.

We use 3 scoring lines, and out of those 3, Brassard's line got the easiest match ups; What the **** else are you supposed to call it? It is what it is.

And they will continue to get the same match ups if MSL and Nash are on separate lines

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

You can call them whatever the **** you want, but each line has a clearly defined role under AV.

We use 3 scoring lines, and out of those 3, Brassard's line got the easiest match ups; What the **** else are you supposed to call it? It is what it is.

Interesting reaction for a post that was mostly agreeing with and adding to what you originally said.

Again, thats where the depth comes in. Vigneault is a coach that will always try to win the chess match with matchups, zone starts, and any other advantage he can exploit.

If the offense is more evenly distributed, there will be 3 lines he can use to coax the matchups he wants. When i said a particular poster has an agenda, that wasn't directed at you, I'm not naming names. But i will say they think they know it all.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

And they will continue to get the same match ups if MSL and Nash are on separate lines

Exactly. Not to mention it doesn't really do the team any good playing guys out of position, either. Especially not to overload the top two lines.

The moment the coaching staff puts a line or a pair together they can't trust, thats the moment they lose the matchup game.

I personally feel this roster has the potential to be deeper/more versatile and faster than last season's roster. They should stick to the same formula that was successful last season. Use the depth, use the speed to back defenders up.