Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part III

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Two smart and responsible defensive players who can skate and provide secondary scoring insulating a rookie with some swagger is a disaster waiting to happen?

Please elaborate.

Three inconsistent players on one line? No thanks

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Miller will need either Nash or MSL on his line

 

[silverfish]

Miller will need either Nash or MSL on his line

And there in lies the inherent problem with the 2014-2015 Rangers. We have to waste a top talent because Miller needs it.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

And there in lies the inherent problem with the 2014-2015 Rangers. We have to waste a top talent because Miller needs it.

Yeah. I wish we didn't but he's going to need it for at least this season

But it would be nice to see the offense spread out like that very well balanced

 

[Raspewtin]

And there in lies the inherent problem with the 2014-2015 Rangers. We have to waste a top talent because Miller needs it.

Why is it a waste?

Especially if it's Nash. He creates for himself.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Connecting dots that you've fabricated in an effort to paint a baseless claim into fact...

Kreider and Stepan had success with both Zuccarello and St. Louis as well as Nash.

Nash also happened to be with Kreider and Stepan during the career-worst slump/funk he was in for the last 2 months of the year (May and June). I find it interesting that you neglected to mention that part of it.

The bottom line is that Kreider&Stepan are a unit, Brassard&Zuccarello are a unit, and Hagelin&Stempniak have a good chance at flanking whomever wins the 3C spot, because of the remaining wingers, they are the two most ideal 3rd-liners, as they have proved that they are capable of smart two-way hockey while contributing scoring depth in that role, and with the minutes associated with it.

That leaves Nash and St. Louis as the remaining top-6 wingers to slot in. Since St. Louis and Zuccarello are both tiny (despite neither one playing a small game), the obvious move is to keep them on separate lines. Thus, we have:

Kreider Stepan St. Louis
Nash Brassard Zuccarello
Hagelin Miller Stempniak
and The Dominic Moore Show

Easing the transition even more is the fact that Nash is taking Pouliot's spot: Nash has the same body-type and somewhat similar skating stride while being a lot better at every offensive aspect of the game.

Fitzy helps further echo these sentiments as he eloquently articulates below:

All of Nash, Zucarello, and MSL should be separated.

They're all playmaking wingers. They should all be able to handle their own line.

You can also look as to what Vigneault prefers to do... which is to separate the playmaking talent. He only put MSL and Nash together because he had no other alternative that late in the season. The Rangers were in a playoff push, he did the safest thing he could do and combine the talent until Kreider could come back.

I haven't seen AV put a prospect in a position to fail yet, as the coach of the Rangers. There were several times where he had to evaluate the skill set of several young players and thus put them in different situations... but afterwards he surrounded them with players that would help them succeed.

Helping players succeed helps achieve the main goal, which is helping the team succeed.

I doubt Miller would have even been yo-yo'ed the way he was last year if we had slightly more AHL depth. Sather must not have liked doing that to JT, he over compensated with his offseason agenda by signing more AHL depth than was necessary.

AV with prospects?

Kreider on 1st line surrounded by our best center and our most dynamic playmaking winger (at the start of the season).
J Moore paired with Kevin Klein to stabilize his erratic playing.
Del Zotto moved to more comfortable side once he expressed lack of confidence.
Fast was evaluated for first 5 games of season. 2nd stint with Richards and Hagelin.
Zucc with Kreider, Stepan... then Brassard to help get Brass going, too.

Hagelin-Miller-Stempniak wouldn't be putting Miller in a position to succeed. It wouldn't be putting the team in a position to succeed.

Balance the lines. That's what I wanted when AV came in. That's what he did.

Miller will be on the 2nd line, in between either Nash or MSL and Hagelin.

He'll get 13-16 minutes a game, and when it gets late in the game, or we need to play more defensively, D. Moore will take his spot centering the 2nd line.

Nothing else will happen barring injuries and underperforming play from Brassard or Nash or MSL or Kreider.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

And there in lies the inherent problem with the 2014-2015 Rangers. We have to waste a top talent because Miller needs it.

It's not wasting ****. It's balancing the talent and supporting players that will need it.

I guess we "wasted" talent surrounding Kreider, too.

 

[silverfish]

Yeah. I wish we didn't but he's going to need it for at least this season

But it would be nice to see the offense spread out like that very well balanced

Don't disagree.

Why is it a waste?

Especially if it's Nash. He creates for himself.

Creating for yourself is all fine and dandy, but he's still going to need help. No one can do everything by themselves. If it's Nash with Miller, I can't see more than 50 points for Nash when he should be in the 60s. If it's MSL with Miller, I can't see more than 60 points when he should be in the 70s. That's a waste to me.

Of course, if this than that is a bull**** premise. Just have to wait and see what Miller is made of come training camp. I wonder if he'll come early with the rest of the team this time

It's not wasting ****. It's balancing the talent and supporting players that will need it.

I guess we "wasted" talent surrounding Kreider, too.

No. Kreider earned the talent. And then when he didn't earn the talent, he got sent back to the AHL. Then he came back up and earned the talent. Kreider scored the same amount of goals in his first 18 NHL PLAYOFF GAMES as Miller has in his 60 total NHL games.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Don't disagree.



Creating for yourself is all fine and dandy, but he's still going to need help. No one can do everything by themselves. If it's Nash with Miller, I can't see more than 50 points for Nash when he should be in the 60s. If it's MSL with Miller, I can't see more than 60 points when he should be in the 70s. That's a waste to me.

Of course, if this than that is a bull**** premise. Just have to wait and see what Miller is made of come training camp. I wonder if he'll come early with the rest of the team this time



No. Kreider earned the talent. And then when he didn't earn the talent, he got sent back to the AHL. Then he came back up and earned the talent. Kreider scored the same amount of goals in his first 18 NHL PLAYOFF GAMES as Miller has in his 60 total NHL games.

Oh get off of it.

He's going to be surrounded with a savvy vet who will take the double team, and a speedy winger who will be able to cover for him defensively when he ****s up.

 

[silverfish]

Oh get off of it.

He's going to be surrounded with a savvy vet who will take the double team, and a speedy winger who will be able to cover for him defensively when he ****s up.

Yep! Let's set up a Vet to be constantly double-teamed, and make Hagelin worry about everything in the defensive zone.

Sounds like a sick plan for a line.

I say my prayers that Lombardi is a hidden gem every night

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Yep! Let's set up a Vet to be constantly double-teamed, and make Hagelin worry about everything in the defensive zone.

Sounds like a sick plan for a line.

I say my prayers that Lombardi is a hidden gem every night

Spin it however you like. You're going to be in for a big disappointment when Miller is centering MSL and Hagelin for the majority of the year.

 

[silverfish]

Spin it however you like. You're going to be in for a big disappointment when Miller is centering MSL and Hagelin for the majority of the year.

I sure am. No doubt about it.

As always, sure hope I'm eating crow on this come June when JT has the cup over his head.

EDIT - For what it's worth, I posted a thread on HFCBJ to see if they have any thoughts on LW Nash, and Nash with Brassard:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=88774243#post88774243

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

And there in lies the inherent problem with the 2014-2015 Rangers. We have to waste a top talent because Miller needs it.

Yeah. I wish we didn't but he's going to need it for at least this season

 

[ncmike]

Nash and Brassard played together briefly in the 2013 playoffs. I thought they looked decent together.

I don't like the idea of moving one of Zucc or Nash off RW though. Rather have 3 balanced lines. Everyone points to Brassard and Zucc getting tougher matchups but if Nash and MSL are RW's on two different lines, will the teams really match up their best players against the Brassard - Zucc pairing and possibly letting one or both of Nash and MSL off with easier matchups?

Bingo!!! Separating them gives the team a mismatch on the third line. The only question is who, of Nash or MSL, brings out the best in JT Miller. That is who they go with. That gives the Rangers a stud that opponents have to match up their third lines against.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

All of Nash, Zucarello, and MSL should be separated.

They're all playmaking wingers. They should all be able to handle their own line.

You can also look as to what Vigneault prefers to do... which is to separate the playmaking talent. He only put MSL and Nash together because he had no other alternative that late in the season. The Rangers were in a playoff push, he did the safest thing he could do and combine the talent until Kreider could come back.

I haven't seen AV put a prospect in a position to fail yet, as the coach of the Rangers. There were several times where he had to evaluate the skill set of several young players and thus put them in different situations... but afterwards he surrounded them with players that would help them succeed.

Helping players succeed helps achieve the main goal, which is helping the team succeed.

I doubt Miller would have even been yo-yo'ed the way he was last year if we had slightly more AHL depth. Sather must not have liked doing that to JT, he over compensated with his offseason agenda by signing more AHL depth than was necessary.

AV with prospects?

Kreider on 1st line surrounded by our best center and our most dynamic playmaking winger (at the start of the season).
J Moore paired with Kevin Klein to stabilize his erratic playing.
Del Zotto moved to more comfortable side once he expressed lack of confidence.
Fast was evaluated for first 5 games of season. 2nd stint with Richards and Hagelin.
Zucc with Kreider, Stepan... then Brassard to help get Brass going, too.

Hagelin-Miller-Stempniak wouldn't be putting Miller in a position to succeed. It wouldn't be putting the team in a position to succeed.

Balance the lines. That's what I wanted when AV came in. That's what he did.

Miller will be on the 2nd line, in between either Nash or MSL and Hagelin.

He'll get 13-16 minutes a game, and when it gets late in the game, or we need to play more defensively, D. Moore will take his spot centering the 2nd line.

Nothing else will happen barring injuries and underperforming play from Brassard or Nash or MSL or Kreider.

I stopped reading after you said that Nash was a playmaking winger.

13 assists in 65 games last season. In a GOOD season, Nash averages about 30 assists over 82 games. Those are playmaking assist numbers? Rick Nash has never had more assists in a season than goals (he may have done it once or twice, actually, but it wouldn't have been by a margin of more than 2-3). He's a goal scorer. Can he create plays occasionally as well? Of course. So can Lee Stempniak. Is he a playmaking winger too?

Come on, man. I get that you don't want to be wrong, but now you're just making yourself look foolish trying to force your baseless ideas with claims that legitimately don't make sense and aren't even open for debate. Rick Nash is not a playmaking winger. He never has been, and he never will.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

Three inconsistent players on one line? No thanks

You apparently don't watch the same sport that I do.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

You apparently don't watch the same sport that I do.

Yeah sorry I don't watch NHL14 game play videos

 

[ncmike]

And there in lies the inherent problem with the 2014-2015 Rangers. We have to waste a top talent because Miller needs it.

It's not a waste. This team has one of the best right wing line up in the league. Why would you change that up? By putting Nash or MSL on the third line, no matter who is the center, creates mismatches for opposing teams. With Hagelin on the wing, either MSL or Nash, are going to get a ton of opportunities against third lines and third defense pairings.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Oh whats that? People agree with putting Nash/MSL with Miller? Who would of thought!??

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I stopped reading after you said that Nash was a playmaking winger.

13 assists in 65 games last season. In a GOOD season, Nash averages about 30 assists over 82 games. Those are playmaking assist numbers? Rick Nash has never had more assists in a season than goals (he may have done it once or twice, actually, but it wouldn't have been by a margin of more than 2-3). He's a goal scorer. Can he create plays occasionally as well? Of course. So can Lee Stempniak. Is he a playmaking winger too?

Come on, man. I get that you don't want to be wrong, but now you're just making yourself look foolish trying to force your baseless ideas with claims that legitimately don't make sense and aren't even open for debate. Rick Nash is not a playmaking winger. He never has been, and he never will.

Okay buddy. Well you can continue your narrative in two months when Miller is safely surrounded by one of MSL/Nash and Hagelin, and i'll be perfectly content watching AV sending out his balanced attack, once again.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

Oh whats that? People agree with putting Nash/MSL with Miller? Who would of thought!??

I see just as many, if not more disagreeing.

Okay buddy. Well you can continue your narrative in two months when Miller is safely surrounded by one of MSL/Nash and Hagelin, and i'll be perfectly content watching AV sending out his balanced attack, once again.

You guys act like the lineup Fitzy, and I, and plenty of others have suggested is totally unbalanced, as if we're some top-heavy team like the Penguins with no depth.

And I'm not the kind of poster who will save these quotes and throw them back in your face when the season starts and you're proven wrong. You've already made yourself look foolish enough. You don't need any effort on my part.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I see just as many, if not more disagreeing.



You guys act like the lineup Fitzy, and I, and plenty of others have suggested is totally unbalanced, as if we're some top-heavy team like the Penguins with no depth.

And I'm not the kind of poster who will save these quotes and throw them back in your face when the season starts and you're proven wrong. You've already made yourself look foolish enough. You don't need any effort on my part.

Whatever you say there, seven's.

I'm really stressing out over here about "looking foolish" because I prefer balance and rationale.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Whatever you say there, seven's.

I'm really stressing out over here about "looking foolish" because I prefer balance and rationale.

Ohhhhh trust me bud...your not the one looking foolish

 

[Hire Sather]

Whoever has Nash NOT playing with Zuccarello is right.

 

[Zil]

As for Duclair I think he has a shot at making the Rangers next year but he's a longshot.

I don't think Duclair really has a shot just because they don't have a defensively responsible top-nine center to put him with unless they play him with Stepan, which isn't going to happen.