Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part III

[TheTakedown]

Stempniak has played on some REALLY bad teams. 637 NHL games and a grand total of 24 playoff games across those seasons. The Kings played almost that many playoff games this year alone.

Stempniak and Pouliout are relatively close players, IMHO.

Pouliout - 371 NHL games, 160 points = .431 points per game
Stempniak - 637, 341 = .535 points per game

Stempniak has a higher ceiling and has had better seasons than Poo has ever had. Poo has been in 54 career playoff games - more than double Stempniak's career numbers in a little more than half the time in the NHL - which tells you he played for much better teams.

Poo played for a winner and got (over)paid for it. Stempniak is not an acquisition that lessens the team.

Figured I'd quote you on this since I wrote it in my edit.

Agree with you completely:

I'd like to point out in regards to Stempniak is that the "teams with bad depth" arguement can go both ways. Perhaps his totals are lower BECAUSE he was put into a role higher than he was capable of BECAUSE of that poor depth...

Look at the teams Pouliot has played on since 09-10 season... Montreal, Tampa, Boston, and NYR. TONS of depth on those teams.

Now look at Stempniak's teams... Toronto, Phoenix, Calgary, Pittsburgh

Surprisingly, in his 21 regular season game stint with Pittsburgh, he tallied 11 points... a team that had depth remotely capable compared to the other 3 teams he played on

 

[Zil]

Stralman's possession stats were very good, but how do you compute that into leading to more offense? It certainly didn't lead to more offense for him individually.

Would you concede the team will be more of a threat to score when Dan Boyle will be on the ice compared to Stralman?

Read: http://www.mc79hockey.com/2014/06/points-arent-offence/

The Rangers scored at a higher rate when Stralman was on the ice than when he wasn't.

Edit: Site appears to be down for some reason.

 

[Fletch]

no, definitely not knocking boyle. I wanted him back all season. shame he went to Tampa...

We're basically replacing a defensive forward with an offensive forward, meaning we gain in certain areas while we lose in other areas. Boyle was a rock in the defensive zone, however he blew chunks in the Offensive zone, as Dom Moore did most of the work.

I'm not saying Lombardi "replaces" Boyle, because in a direct sense, he does not. He does add a DIFFERENT element to the 4th line, so he moreso "indirectly" replaces Boyle, but with an entirely different skillset. That's what I was getting at.

I also mean the same thing for Dorsett --> Glass... They are both give and take in specific areas of the game.

I get it. Lombardi does add an element. The biggest wildcard with him is will he stay healthy and will he be effective at a high level. If he returns to form of a couple seasons ago, that fourth line will present problems for the opposition.

I did actually think Boyle wasn't too bad in the O-zone. Thought he went into the corners, tied up the puck, and freed up the puck, thus killing time against good lines, which is something you'd want him to do. He got a lot of decent chances for a fourth liner, but he sure did have tough luck. He and Moore complemented each other well. Hopefully so too can Lombardi.

 

[BBKers]

I get it. Lombardi does add an element. The biggest wildcard with him is will he stay healthy and will he be effective at a high level. If he returns to form of a couple seasons ago, that fourth line will present problems for the opposition.

I did actually think Boyle wasn't too bad in the O-zone. Thought he went into the corners, tied up the puck, and freed up the puck, thus killing time against good lines, which is something you'd want him to do. He got a lot of decent chances for a fourth liner, but he sure did have tough luck. He and Moore complemented each other well. Hopefully so too can Lombardi.

Boyle was good but cost too much for the role he filled. Plain and simple. Hopefully his presence will not be missed

 

[Doctyl]

Absolute worst case scenario with JTM replacing Brad and Lombo replacing BB, we get a lot faster,

 

[Zil]

Absolute worst case scenario with JTM replacing Brad and Lombo replacing BB, we get a lot faster,

Because that makes up for the fact that Miller hasn't proven himself at all and Lombardi lacks Boyle's defensive game?

 

[Thirty One]

Read: http://www.mc79hockey.com/2014/06/points-arent-offence/

The Rangers scored at a higher rate when Stralman was on the ice than when he wasn't.

Edit: Site appears to be down for some reason.

The Oilers hired Dellow so they could remove the mountain of evidence on how bad they are.

Try to keep up, will ya?

 

[kovazub94]

Figured I'd quote you on this since I wrote it in my edit.

Agree with you completely:

I'd like to point out in regards to Stempniak is that the "teams with bad depth" arguement can go both ways. Perhaps his totals are lower BECAUSE he was put into a role higher than he was capable of BECAUSE of that poor depth...

Look at the teams Pouliot has played on since 09-10 season... Montreal, Tampa, Boston, and NYR. TONS of depth on those teams.

Now look at Stempniak's teams... Toronto, Phoenix, Calgary, Pittsburgh

Surprisingly, in his 21 regular season game stint with Pittsburgh, he tallied 11 points... a team that had depth remotely capable compared to the other 3 teams he played on

In short, beware of good players on bad teams?

 

[Wolfy*]

Zucc said Stempniak will probably replace Pouliot on his line with Brassard. If so it should be a great and productive line

 

[Zil]

The Oilers hired Dellow so they could remove the mountain of evidence on how bad they are.

Try to keep up, will ya?

Anybody got a cached version?

 

[Savant]

Zucc said Stempniak will probably replace Pouliot on his line with Brassard. If so it should be a great and productive line

Where did he say this? Do you have a link?

 

[Wolfy*]

Where did he say this? Do you have a link?

There's a link in the Zucc Awesome thread, but he speaks Norwegian in that video interview where he said a lot of interesting stuff about the team and his role.

 

[member 116805]

If thats the case Stepn will get paid next year haha

 

[Doctyl]

In short, beware of good players on bad teams?

Rick Nash

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Stemp-Brass-Zuke will be a good line.

 

[kovazub94]

Rick Nash

I was just saying that Stepniak being put in higher role than is suitable for his talent (because of lack of depth on a bad team) would mostly hide performance issues, not expose it. I'm still hoping that Nash will not be in this category but so far the good player / bad team observation applies.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

I don't buy that.

First of all, Zucc wouldn't know who he's playing with yet, unless AV told him which would make no sense. AV would have no reason to tell him that yet and he likely wants to try a few combinations in camp before making his final decision anyway.

Secondly, Stempniak is the ideal 3rd line winger to play with Hagelin and whoever wins the 3C spot, which puts Kreider or Nash with Brassard and Zucc, and since Kreider-Stepan has been a reliable duo with established chemistry, Nash appears to be the most likely candidate to slide next to Brass and Zucc.

Kreider Stepan St. Louis
Nash Brassard Zuccarello
Hagelin Miller Stempniak

is the ideal top-9 to start the season IMO.

 

[silverfish]

If Stemp can and will play LW, it puts one or two of Nash/MSL/Kreider with Miller assuming Stemp/Brass/Zuke is a line.

Need to make a deal for a 3C. Opens a hole to fill another.

We need big things from Miller this year, man... big things.

 

[kovazub94]

Stemp-Brass-Zuke will be a good line.

It should be. But this means that one of Nash or MSL will be on a "third" line. If this a case AV will likely keep Nash on Stepan line and will let MSL and Hags play whoever wins 3C spot.
I still think that Nash will get a first crack at that LW spot with Brass and Zuke.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

It should be. But this means that one of Nash or MSL will be on a "third" line. If this a case AV will likely keep Nash on Stepan line and will let MSL and Hags play whoever wins 3C spot.
I still think that Nash will get a first crack at that LW spot with Brass and Zuke.

Considering how evenly AV spreads out the minutes, is that a bad thing? Sounds like a sweetheart matchup for whoever is on the "3rd line"

 

[member 116805]

I dont think having msl be a mentor on the "3rd" line is a bad idea. I say "3rd" because we all know AV will have the top 3 (lines) play more or less equal minutes playing 4 lines

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I think the best scenario is to have Nash carry the "3rd line" with Miller/Lindberg/Lombardi. Nash for as frustrating as he is at times still is able to 1. lug the puck up the ice on his own and 2. create his own shot. Let him carry that line against hopefully weaker competition.

Brassard and Zucc can carry a player like Stempniak and still produce. Zucc stirs the drink here.

MSL feeds Kreider (and Stepan).

Kreider-Stepan-MSL
Stempniak-Brassard-Zuccarello
Hagelin-Miller-Nash

Maybe switch Hagelin and Stemp. I would think Miller-Nash "need" Hagelin more than Brassard-Zucc.

 

[Doctyl]

Hags is able to play of other guys talent. We saw it when he was with Nash for a while 2 years ago and when he was with Marty in the playoffs

 

[kovazub94]

Considering how evenly AV spreads out the minutes, is that a bad thing? Sounds like a sweetheart matchup for whoever is on the "3rd line"

Not a bad thing in the same way as Stepniak playing on Brassard's line. I just think that Nash would be a better fit on this line. In other words:

Nash - Brass - Zuke, Hags - Miller - Stepniak

is better than

Stepniak - Brass - Zuke, Hags - Miller - Nash.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

Not a bad thing in the same way as Stepniak playing on Brassard's line. I just think that Nash would be a better fit on this line. In other words:

Nash - Brass - Zuke, Hags - Miller - Stepniak

is better than

Stepniak - Brass - Zuke, Hags - Miller - Nash.

I agree.

But I'd prefer either of those over any lineup that puts MSL with J.T. Miller.

MSL is our best finisher. He should be with our top offensive players who will create the most chances for him to finish.

And while I feel the same way about Nash, he is an atypical scorer in the sense that he doesn't rely as much on his center to create for him. So, if any of our top-6 players are going to be dropped down to the 3rd line to play with Miller, it should be Nash. But, I do agree with you that Kreider-Stepan-St. Louis | Nash-Brassard Zuccarello | Hagelin-Miller-Stempniak | Glass Moore Lombardi makes the most sense based on established chemistry, playing styles, offensive/two-way roles, and scoring balance.