They played together, and Moore was definitely better than Del Zotto, even then.
Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part III
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They played together, and Moore was definitely better than Del Zotto, even then.
Moore and DZ probably aren't far apart defensively or even offensively. That said, Moores speed allows him to cover some of his mistakes. DZ would probably be our worst skating Dman on this roster, while Moore is clearly our second best. He has mcdonagh speed.
Keep up the good work.
Its not that I dont understand the language of your posts, its that the overall message makes zero sense.
The off-season is tearing us apart
It's kinda funny because it really isn't that bad of an offseason
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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I keep seeing this narrative that Del Zotto has been on a downward spiral since making his splash of a debut in 2009. Its simply not true. I thought he was exceptional in 2011-2012.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
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Thirty One
Safe is safe.
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By far his best season, IMO.
When Staal came back, he played on the second unit PK as a RD over Stralman, and took quite a few ES shifts on the right side too.
haveandare
Registered User
I have no interest in getting in on the bickering, but I agree that Moore is more steady than DZ by a noticeable margin, at least in my eyes.
DZ made the same stupid mistakes over and over, not unlike Richards. That bothers me more than someone who makes a wider array of mistakes now and then, like Moore.
Neither are world beaters, but they're both young still. DZ has been on a downward path while Moore has been on a somewhat flat path. Having to choose, I'd take the guy who hasn't been actively getting worse, but that's just me.
DZ made the same stupid mistakes over and over, not unlike Richards. That bothers me more than someone who makes a wider array of mistakes now and then, like Moore.
Neither are world beaters, but they're both young still. DZ has been on a downward path while Moore has been on a somewhat flat path. Having to choose, I'd take the guy who hasn't been actively getting worse, but that's just me.
BlueshirtBlitz
Foolish Samurai
Why was Tanner Glass signed on the first day of free agency for 3 years?
Sometimes teams make mistakes. I'm sure a bad team could've grabbed DZ and would've had a 3rd pairing d-man better than one of the 3rd pair players on the SCF NYR.
Moore might be better than him in the future, but MDZ is and has been better than John Moore, and if MDZ can somehow return to his 2011-2012 form (BRB nails it, MDZ was good that year), it won't be very close.
Off Sides
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2008
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That has always been the deal with MDZ, does his risky play that leads to his offensive outweigh his defense and the offense the other team generates off his risky play when it does not work?
When the ration is in MDZ's favor it's easier to overlook the other deficiencies and call it a net positive, when the ratio goes the other way there is not much of a reason for a coach to play him other than out of desperate need for offense from a defender.
When up by a goal or tied there is no need for risky play, when down by one late I could see the idea, but the player has to adjust based on the game situation, I'm not so sure MDZ ever read the game situation, nor the plays coming at him very well.
When the ration is in MDZ's favor it's easier to overlook the other deficiencies and call it a net positive, when the ratio goes the other way there is not much of a reason for a coach to play him other than out of desperate need for offense from a defender.
When up by a goal or tied there is no need for risky play, when down by one late I could see the idea, but the player has to adjust based on the game situation, I'm not so sure MDZ ever read the game situation, nor the plays coming at him very well.
- Aug 5, 2010
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Are you seriously suggesting
Marchand Brassard Zuccarello
instead of
Nash Brassard Zuccarello?
Everything else is minor compared to this downgrade.
Marchand and Nash score the same number of goals and the same number of points.
Marchand makes 4.5
Nash makes 7.8
Marchand is 26
Nash is 30
Is that really a downgrade?
You also neglect to look at the big picture which includes us upgrading Klein to Boychuk and adding another reliable veteran body down the middle in Vermette. The luxury of having Boychuk on the 3rd pair makes an already strong defense even stronger. Boychuk is a playoff warrior who is set to be a UFA. It would also give us more options with the Staal situation if we could potentially choose between keeping Staal or Boychuk if Marc's demands get too high or it looks like he wants to hit FA. Boychuk would also be cheaper to retain than Staal and provides similar (albeit not as good defensively) performance.
- Aug 5, 2010
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To be more precise - Del Zotto performed at that level for a significant portion of 2011-2012 season but not the whole season. It was the reason I defended him until I could no longer.
If I had to project from now on and compare these two... it doesn't get any easier because if MDZ somehow returns to the level he already previously demonstrated - it will be a level where Moore is not even projected to be. On the other hand MDZ is on a steep downward spiral while Moore is slowly but progressing after contributing significant minutes on a team that made it to SCF and still being pretty young (people forget that he's younger than Allen and already has all this experience).
One thing - I will not cheer for Del Zotto to return to form with Flyers.
Zil
Shrug
- Feb 9, 2006
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I'd argue it's a pretty terrible offseason when you get that close to a Cup and then bungle the followup. All of our hopes are pinned on improvements from Stepan, McDonagh, Kreider, and Zuccarello (to say nothing of Miller) because the veteran mix is weaker.
Stralman>D. Boyle
Pouliot>Stempniak (we couldn't afford Pouliot, but still a downgrade)
B. Boyle>Lombardi
Dorsett>>Glass (at hockey, not useless facepunching)
They also felt the need to give Brassard a five year deal while failing to lock up the far more important Zuccarello. Nobody knows what our center depth is going to look like this year. Miller or Lindberg might grab the third line spot, or we might wind up depending on Lombardi. Our immediate window of contention may very well be closed.
- Aug 5, 2010
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If you believe it is not a big downgrade I will not argue - no point. Just look at their salaries or ask yourself if Marchand would command Duby, Anisimov, Erixon and 1st.
And you also need to read other posts more diligently - I did not "neglect" your "big picture" - I told you that these other moves were insignificant compared Nash to Marchand downgrade especially on that line. But I think you just want to argue for the sake of argument. No thanks.
Would Nash command that return today?
I'm waiting for you to address my points about Nash and Marchand producing the same numbers, while Nash makes almost double the salary, and is 4 years older. I want to know how that's a downgrade.
Nash wouldn't command anything because he doesn't want to be traded and the rangers aren't trading him.
Oh look that ends the Nash trade discussion
Meh - Pouliot, for all his faults, played a pretty physical game, wasn't scared to go to the front of the net, and was a solid forechecker. I haven't watched Stempniak enough but I dont think points tell the whole story there.
I agree that D. Boyle will wind up being a net/net upgrade over Stralman.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
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Boyle is the same if not a net positive over Stralman
Stempniak and Pouliot are the same except Stempniak has a better hockey IQ and is a smoother skater, albeit a bit smaller
The other 2 are 4th line plugs. Lombardi is FAST, and Dorsett/Glass seems interchangable to me... look at their point stats... they are almost the same
If 2 4th line WINGERS make the difference between last year's performance and this year's performance, then we had bigger problems that just never reared their head last season...
Fact is Dom Moore RUNS that 4th line, hands down. Whoever is on it will benefit from his play. Just like whoever is centering MSL benefits from his play.
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