Are JT and Dylan the same? Wasn't it more clear that JT had the skill, but perhaps not the maturity and Dylan may have a ways to go. It's not juniors any longer and you can't fight everyone any longer? Look, I hope he works out, obviously. I love defenseman that can punish and aren't liabilities out there. Just commenting on what he said.
Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part III
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Are JT and Dylan the same? Wasn't it more clear that JT had the skill, but perhaps not the maturity and Dylan may have a ways to go. It's not juniors any longer and you can't fight everyone any longer? Look, I hope he works out, obviously. I love defenseman that can punish and aren't liabilities out there. Just commenting on what he said.
I'm not addressing what you think of Dylan as a prospect.
I'm addressing what Clark said.
It's not negative. It's stern. It's clear both of these prospects are in the same boat in terms of needing to take the next step.
Good cop is over. They're no longer getting the carrot. They're getting the stick. Let's see if it works.
eco's bones
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Would people here move Nash sometime this year to keep the rest of the roster intact? I think I'd consider it.
Jim Morrison
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- Aug 4, 2009
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http://www.eliteprospects.com/draft.php?year=2010
So, if I asked you to pick out the busts, would you be able to do it? I'm just really tired of hearing the McIlrath-excuses year after year. Next season it will be a different one and it will end with "This season will be huge for him" or "it'll be the make or break-season for him". As it always is!
I hope McIlrath blows everyone out of the water this season, but i'm not getting my hopes up too much. If he doesn't make the team sometime during this season and gets regular minutes, he will at least be a bust in my eyes. Sorry.
So, if I asked you to pick out the busts, would you be able to do it? I'm just really tired of hearing the McIlrath-excuses year after year. Next season it will be a different one and it will end with "This season will be huge for him" or "it'll be the make or break-season for him". As it always is!
I hope McIlrath blows everyone out of the water this season, but i'm not getting my hopes up too much. If he doesn't make the team sometime during this season and gets regular minutes, he will at least be a bust in my eyes. Sorry.
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Clark has made similar comments about McIlrath in the past. He made them to Jim Cerny in June. He missed the first 3 months of his pro career with the knee cap injury which was caused by a Kyle Jean hit in prospect camp. McIlrath missed a month last season with a knee sprain. He has played 114 games in the AHL. Other players play that many games in one year including the playoffs. This is a key year for him. What Clark say that was wrong? McIlrath had 11 fighting majors last season. He had more fighting majors in fewer games in his first season.
Mac n Gs
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I wasn't hinting at calling McIlrath a bust. I'm actually really excited to see him play, and I was at the game against Calgary when he played. Once/if he can put all his tools together, he is going to be a special player for us.
Plus, he has a ****ing cannon of a slap shot, so that'll be fun to watch when he shoots the puck.
Plus, he has a ****ing cannon of a slap shot, so that'll be fun to watch when he shoots the puck.
Watched him play a dozen times... never seen a cannon. It's about as much of a cannon as Girardi's is. Once in a blue moon he rips a shot that opens eyes. Average shot.
The key to his NHL success will be positioning. He's not fast. His speed on the ice is actually a touch below average. Therefore, he needs to have impeccable positioning.
When he came up last year, he seemed nervous, and was out of position a lot.
He can develop into a Douglas Murray type defenseman. But first thing is first - good positioning needs to become second nature.
He made vast improvements in that regard last year. Still more needs to be done.
NikC
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Get where though? 3rd pair defenseman who can fight? All this development time for a 5th maybe 4th d-man.? I want the guy to succeed, but as it stands this was a horrible choice for
A tenth overall, when this team still lacks top 6 scoring...
Sangunetti. ... bust
Dumbzotto. ...bust
McIlrath.....
Off Sides
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- Sep 8, 2008
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Grain of salt, I disliked the pick from the get go so there is certainly some bias.
I watched McIlrath in traverse city, the preseasons and in the NHL games, not much to go on, but he reminded me of Shane O'Brien.
I think they were hoping for a Hedman or Weber, or even a Erik or Jack Johnson. Not saying he could not maybe get nearer to that level but if I were to guess...
I watched McIlrath in traverse city, the preseasons and in the NHL games, not much to go on, but he reminded me of Shane O'Brien.
I think they were hoping for a Hedman or Weber, or even a Erik or Jack Johnson. Not saying he could not maybe get nearer to that level but if I were to guess...
We were hoping McIlrath would develop into Shea Weber. Now we're praying he becomes a solid bottom pair D who isn't a liability.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
It's no aberration that the only defensemen in that draft who have played a full NHL season on that list are Erik Gudbranson and Cam Fowler. The former plays on a team without depth, so he was a top 6 defenseman in that organization on the day he was drafted. The latter is an offensive defenseman. Offensive D have other skills that make them more capable of playing in the NHL earlier, as the offense makes up for the relatively poor defense. From the 2011 draft, the number of D is also 2. Larsson, who then spent the next two seasons up and down with the AHL, and Hamilton, another offensive defenseman.
If you go back to 2009, the number of D playing full seasons increases dramatically.
People gotta remember that defensemen typically take time to develop. McIlrath's development path is fine so far.
I doubt we see him this year. With the commitments to Boyle, Girardi and Klein on 1-way contracts.
And signings of Kostka and Kampfer, both RH dmen that play the right side. Good skating dmen that fit in AV's system. I'd say it's maybe 1-2 more yrs after this season until he gets a spot.
Puffery?
Was McIlrath's ceiling not projected to be a big, intimidating defenseman with offensive potential?
Shea Weber seems like a pretty good goal to aim for by that description.
Unless of course, you're pretending that you think I was suggesting that he was supposed to be a Shea Weber clone.
Nobody ever said he had Weber's offense, but the thought was that as he developed, he would develop and fine-tune some untapped offensive potential that was lurking beneath the surface. It's looking more like that's not the case, as his "development" is still largely based around him improving his defensive positioning and reading the play.
McIlrath was drafted as a project with the hopes that he was a late bloomer (hey, Zdeno Chara was a late-bloomer too) and would develop into a physically intimidating shutdown monster who could also provide offense from the blue-line. I guess somewhere between Brooks Orpik and Shea Weber would be a better comparison. Perhaps a more mobile and offensively-gifted Jeff Beukeboom.
That's what the advocates of the pick were hoping for. It's sad that now we're just hoping that he can stick as a bottom-pair defenseman who isn't a liability. Basically, if he's better defensively than Del Zotto, we'll be satisfied. That's sad. That was my point.
I would have done it this off-season. Depends on how we do this year.
Yup.....who the heck thought this guy would be Shea Weber? Hell, who thinks any player drafted will be Shea Weber. Talk about setting unrealistic expectations, especially with a #10!
Dude, what are you talking about. He was not intended to ever have a ton of offensive potential, nor was he expected to be a PP QB. On top of that, McIlrath's major comparisons were guys like Beuk. A middle-pairing D-Man who is extremely intimidating. You're making **** up to prove a useless point.
I think the Shea Weber thought comes from the fact that it was pointed out around his draft time that he had better numbers in juniors than Weber did in their respective draft years.
Not worried about McIlrath. There's not even a spot for him right now in the lineup.
Not worried about McIlrath. There's not even a spot for him right now in the lineup.
That's not all you want to see out of a defenseman. It's one thing to lose a forward for 5 minutes, it's a different story for a defenseman. Not something you want to see on a regular basis.
I hope the comments are to motivate McIlrath, but they also seem to be sending a message to the public not to pump up this prospect. Hopefully, it just means he's a work in progress.
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Just got done rewatching the flyer ranger series for the second time. I can easily say Staal was the best Dman of that series.
Funny how people forget how great certain players played before the SCF
Funny how people forget how great certain players played before the SCF
I'm not making anything up. Why are you getting angry and defensive over this?
I even used the Beuk comparison, but it was thought that McIlrath's offensive game would grow as well as he developed his all-around game. Weber was an exaggeration, but there was definitely hope that he would add more offense to his game as he continued to mature as a player. The fact that he hasn't (because he's still struggling to round-out his basic defensive game / positioning / reads) doesn't make it any less true. I'm not trying to prove any point. I have no agenda on this issue whatsoever; simply discussing a prospect and his development or lack thereof. Relax.
If team has the choice, ideally you move because your asset is at the point of roughly highest return; value received will not dramatically improve by holding on to him.
Value received in trade v. value of production, is part of the equation, as is immediate actual v. potential.
All of that in the equation, Nash has a lot going to stay, and would not waive to generically go 'somewhere'.
However, Detroit, if posters are to be believed, wants him, and their GM has lusted for him. Nash would have chance to be with the Zettermeister and the Datsmeister!! In a great hockey city. And he has to realize that he and Girardi are the scape goats for all cap issues here. This is deserved, notwithstanding Hank's paycheck, but we also all understand we are giving Hank a pass here.
If things work out hunky dorey, right away, fine.
If not, his 7.7 or whatever number is going to be brought up constantly.
Does he want that?
Nash is a co-leader here, supposedly, supplanted by MSL and of course McD, and possibly others evolving. If he moves to the Wings, he can be 'the guy'.
Also, I see a win win as to a deal there.
I want Jurco, their last (2014) 1st [Larkin], Helm and their 2015 1st
for
Nash, our 2016 1st, and a throw in (maybe Hrvik?)
Detroit - Jurco is close to ready, but not cracking the lineup yet and if Alfie returns, will prob sit the year anyway; Larkin was just drafted, is 2-3 years away; and sure there is a loss of value on waiting a year for a late first as opposed to what, likely middle of the pack this year (assuming no collapse, no McDavid). What does that leave? Helm? Only real immediate nut for Red Wings is dif on salaries.
Would there even BE another landing pad for him that is worth it to him, us and the acquiring team?
So yeah, we are invested this much, I prefer not to give him away, but I think the above works and gives us a lot of cap. [Would also be interesting to see Helm at C with Hags. Speed.]
BlueshirtBlitz
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eco's bones
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