Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part II

[Ola]

If he was affordable under the cap and came here for nothing, yes. In a trade that could adversely affect another area of the team, no. Him in that slot with MSL (or Nash) and, say Hagelin, or flipping Hagelin and Kreider, would be a pretty dangerous line.

The game is played on the ice. Imagine being the coach for most teams in the East and you have to face a line of Kreider-Thornton-Nash, it could be contained. But you would always need the right guys on the ice. And they would still score their fair share. I personally would take Joe T over E Staal, the former is just a better player. But that can of course be discussed.

In the end, Joe T hasn't been a true winner. But I also think SJs blue line has been far from cup worthy. Boyle, Burns and Doug Murray has been 3/4 of their top 2 pairings at times when they have been supposed to be a contender. That just don't add up. I've seen plenty of those series SJ have lost, it's no mystery how they have been lost. Teams in the West have learnt how it's done. Just pressure SJs blue line real hard and crash the net and they just can't handle it. For certain, much of Joe's bad rep comes from lazy experts acting as if a player can win it by himself. It's 2014 but whatever.

 

[LundqvistsEvilTwin]

f joe t... id rather joel l

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

I'm actually hearing that Thornton to NY is gaining traction, but Sather is refusing to include Hagelin along with Brassard and prospects. Staal not involved.

Take it for what it's worth, but this source had Klein to NY the day before Boomer even mentioned him on the air. He did however, get the Cally/MSL deal wrong as he had heard it wasn't happening right before it did. He's definitely connected, close to Gorton specifically, but it's not much more reliable than Eklund so please don't put too much stock into it. Just wanted to share since we were just discussing him (Thornton) today.

 

[Doctyl]

Stepan for Thornton, the trade that brought the rangers back to the dark ages

 

[Mikos87]

I would absolutely love to trade for Thornton if the package was Brassard, Moore and any non core player or top prospect such as a Miller, Skjei or Duclair.

Brassard at 5.5 and Moore at 1.0 vs Thornton and Conor Allen is a huge upgrade in consistency and production.

Would instantly make the Rangers a real deal contender in the east. The guy plays tough matcups, makes plays, is a legit top line center with size.

I don't care about his playoff fizzles, Thornton gives the Rangers two legitmate scary top lines when you consider the wingers are Nash, MSL, Zucc and Kreider along with Step as the other center.

All the bottom line depth that's there is in strong standing since there are probably 5-6 guys that are 3rd line capable for sure, with a couple of top 6 options or tweeners in Hags and the kids.

Brassard, JMoore, and I'll gladly throw 2-3 more pieces in prospects and picks for Thornton and unwanted SPCs.

 

[Mikos87]

I'm actually hearing that Thornton to NY is gaining traction, but Sather is refusing to include Hagelin along with Brassard and prospects. Staal not involved.

Take it for what it's worth, but this source had Klein to NY the day before Boomer even mentioned him on the air. He did however, get the Cally/MSL deal wrong as he had heard it wasn't happening right before it did. He's definitely connected, close to Gorton specifically, but it's not much more reliable than Eklund so please don't put too much stock into it. Just wanted to share since we were just discussing him (Thornton) today.

Hope its true, I wouldn't trade Hags in a package. That sort of speed is invaluable and not replaced. Hags is a unique asset.

I am absolutely salivating at the notion of turning Brassard into Thornton.

 

[TheTakedown]

I would absolutely love to trade for Thornton if the package was Brassard, Moore and any non core player or top prospect such as a Miller, Skjei or Duclair.

Brassard at 5.5 and Moore at 1.0 vs Thornton and Conor Allen is a huge upgrade in consistency and production.

Would instantly make the Rangers a real deal contender in the east. The guy plays tough matcups, makes plays, is a legit top line center with size.

I don't care about his playoff fizzles, Thornton gives the Rangers two legitmate scary top lines when you consider the wingers are Nash, MSL, Zucc and Kreider along with Step as the other center.

All the bottom line depth that's there is in strong standing since there are probably 5-6 guys that are 3rd line capable for sure, with a couple of top 6 options or tweeners in Hags and the kids.

Brassard, JMoore, and I'll gladly throw 2-3 more pieces in prospects and picks for Thornton and unwanted SPCs.

Hope its true, I wouldn't trade Hags in a package. That sort of speed is invaluable and not replaced. Hags is a unique asset.

I am absolutely salivating at the notion of turning Brassard into Thornton.

Brass into Thornton is the only thing that makes the trade worth it especially if Brassard is looking for $5.5M... Considering Joe only costs a mere depth signing more, you do that deal every day.

Would definitely not send Hags over... Maybe John Moore if the management staff believes Allen is ready to be eased into 3rd pairing minutes.... I do too, in all honesty... Allen is far superior to Moore in my opinion, and he'll be $100k cheaper

Is it crazy to think that Wilson might be the next Gainey? I mean, the guy is signing John Scott and ripping apart a team that almost won the presidents trophy... He's clearly desperate, and I think at this point he'll take what he can get to make a "contender" out of his team... Sather's not giving up Duclair, Skjei, or Miller, I can bet you on that..

Unfortunately, this deal only works if SJS retains some salary... in doing so, they'll probably want a draft pick or middling prospect... i wonder which one goes

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($2.475m) / Joe Thornton ($5.400m—20.00%) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Lee Stempniak ($0.900m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Mats Zuccarello ($3.500m)
Tanner Glass ($1.450m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Matthew Lombardi ($0.800m)
Chris Mueller ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Boyle ($4.500m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Mike Kostka ($0.650m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,481,667; BONUSES: $1,200,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $518,333

 

[Nyrvana]

I would absolutely love to trade for Thornton if the package was Brassard, Moore and any non core player or top prospect such as a Miller, Skjei or Duclair.

Brassard at 5.5 and Moore at 1.0 vs Thornton and Conor Allen is a huge upgrade in consistency and production.

Would instantly make the Rangers a real deal contender in the east. The guy plays tough matcups, makes plays, is a legit top line center with size.

I don't care about his playoff fizzles, Thornton gives the Rangers two legitmate scary top lines when you consider the wingers are Nash, MSL, Zucc and Kreider along with Step as the other center.

All the bottom line depth that's there is in strong standing since there are probably 5-6 guys that are 3rd line capable for sure, with a couple of top 6 options or tweeners in Hags and the kids.

Brassard, JMoore, and I'll gladly throw 2-3 more pieces in prospects and picks for Thornton and unwanted SPCs.

You wouldn't add Miller, Skjei, or Duclair to make that happen? I would think you would need at least one of the three

 

[TheTakedown]

You wouldn't add Miller, Skjei, or Duclair to make that happen? I would think you would need at least one of the three

think it just depends on how bad Wilson wants to move Thornton... The longer he waits, the more frustrated he gets, and the less he's willing to take, on top of the fact that Thornton has a NTC...

All the pressure is on Wilson, not Sather/Gorton... worst case, we're going to keep Brass for one more year after arbitration.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

if Sather can turn Brassard into Thornton I'll be utterly amazed (unless something really significant goes back the other way with him).

 

[pld459666]

You wouldn't add Miller, Skjei, or Duclair to make that happen? I would think you would need at least one of the three

Would not include Skjei or Miller in a deal for a 35 year old player

I like Duke, but center is a more important position to fill.

 

[Nyrvana]

think it just depends on how bad Wilson wants to move Thornton... The longer he waits, the more frustrated he gets, and the less he's willing to take, on top of the fact that Thornton has a NTC...

All the pressure is on Wilson, not Sather/Gorton... worst case, we're going to keep Brass for one more year after arbitration.

I agree, we are in a good position. If we don't have to give up too much, even better. But, from a PR standpoint giving up your captain (or possibly former captain?) for Brassard and a bunch of pucks probably wouldn't be a good look. Sather had Yzerman in a precarious situation and that ended up being a fair trade.

Would not include Skjei or Miller in a deal for a 35 year old player

I like Duke, but center is a more important position to fill.

I'm just going off of what we had to give up to obtain MSL. I think I would consider Skjei and Duclair. If Miller becomes a capable player, that would be huge for the Rangers down the road. But, Rangers are in absolute win-now mode.

 

[TheTakedown]

I agree, we are in a good position. If we don't have to give up too much, even better. But, from a PR standpoint giving up your captain (or possibly former captain?) for Brassard and a bunch of pucks probably wouldn't be a good look. Sather had Yzerman in a precarious situation and that ended up being a fair trade.



I'm just going off of what we had to give up to obtain MSL. I think I would consider Skjei and Duclair. If Miller becomes a capable player, that would be huge for the Rangers down the road. But, Rangers are in absolute win-now mode.

that's also a trade deadline trade, where more is on the line...

If Wilson doesn't want Thornton there, and Thornton only waives his NTC for NYR, then Sather shouldn't be negotiating against himself... at this point there is nothing to lose... If it doesn't work, then we give Brassard what the QO is... If it does, then Brass is gone and we get Thornton on the cheap...

The difference with Callahan was that the trade deadline was nearly up, and we were stuck with basically a crappy rental player... what we got was a 70 point elite player at this cost of two 1st's, which sucks, but it got us a very nice reward...

We're in the BEST spot to negotiate.


PLUS, coming here, Thornton and Nash can immediately start feeding off eachother, which should not only jump start Nash, but keep Thornton as a 1st liner, bumping Stepan to 2nd, where he belongs...

Essentially you have:

Thornton's 70+ points to replace Stepan's 60 points
Stepan's 60 points to replace Brassard's 45 points
Miller's 30-40 points to replace Brassard's 45 points

Off the bat, you're netting an additional 20 points, and that doesn't take in account a) any improvement from Step, b) Thornton scoring more than 70 points, c) Nash's production improving beyond 30-30, and d) Miller scoring more than 35 ES points

The only downside to this trade is that the PP does take a minor scoring hit, since there are less people to pull the trigger now...

Brassard scored 18 PP Points last year, however 7 of those are goals
Thornton scored 19 PP points last year, however 17 of those are assists

If you can pull Brassard, Middling prospect, and a draft pick, then you do this... I'm not sure of what other roster player I'd be comfortable sending to SJS instead of either the draft pick or the prospect... Personally, I think Brassard being only 26 while Thornton is 35 is a HUGE factor in this... Thornton's a great player, but Brassard is "the shiney new toy" for wilson... Just my thinking.

 

[Cassano]

I really don't like Joe Thornton, but I'm all for acquiring him if they can somehow fit him in and only give up Brassard and average prospects.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I really don't like Joe Thornton, but I'm all for acquiring him if they can somehow fit him in and only give up Brassard and average prospects.

Yeah, I'd be perfectly fine picking him up for meager assets. That is really the only reason I (and probably others) have suggested him.

 

[Zuccarello Awesome*]

Yeah, I'd be perfectly fine picking him up for meager assets. That is really the only reason I (and probably others) have suggested him.

Yup. Exactly.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Turning Brassard+ into Thornton would be an unreal trade, provided the plus is J.Moore and maybe 2 B level prospects.

The main boards would be "loling" saying typical Rangers Thornton is old and sucks, but the guy is still a bonafide elite Center. He makes players around him better, no way he comes here and sucks. Plus he still has gas in the tank, he's 35 not 40. Him with Kreider and Nash would be filthy. Not to mention that would make our 2nd line Hags-Stepan-MSL, which is practically a 1st line.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Turning Brassard+ into Thornton would be an unreal trade, provided the plus is J.Moore and maybe 2 B level prospects.

The main boards would be "loling" saying typical Rangers Thornton is old and sucks, but the guy is still a bonafide elite Center. He makes players around him better, no way he comes here and sucks. Plus he still has gas in the tank, he's 35 not 40. Him with Kreider and Nash would be filthy. Not to mention that would make our 2nd line Hags-Stepan-MSL, which is practically a 1st line.

I'd rather utilize Kreider's size on another line, although that would be scary. 6'3, 6'4, 6'4.

Hagelin-Thornton-Nash
Kreider-Stepan-MSL
Stempniak-Miller-Zuccarello
Glass-Moore-Lombo

 

[Raspewtin]

I'd love to get Thornton for things that don't matter, but remember what we gave up for MSL? A good roster player (albeit a UFA), a 1st and 2nd. That's a hefty price and leads me to believe Thornton wont be cheap, no matter what Doug Wilson says.

 

[Raspewtin]

I'd rather utilize Kreider's size on another line, although that would be scary. 6'3, 6'4, 6'4.

Hagelin-Thornton-Nash
Kreider-Stepan-MSL
Stempniak-Miller-Zuccarello
Glass-Moore-Lombo

As someone who does not like Thornton at all, that is one sexy as hell forward lineup. Wow.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

u cant use thorntons postseason production as a negative in a rick nash trade when rick is averaging under .5 PPG in the postseason. a straight up nash for thornton trade makes us better. SJ wouldnt do it.

The point is, Nash has played 40+ playoff games opposed to Thornton. AND Nash is not our captain and never will be. The '13-14 Sharks were the favorite in many circles. They were beaten in the first round after going up 3-0. There's no way NOT to point at on-ice leadership... so, no thx to 2-3 more years of 70-point JT, I'd rather 5-6 more years of 30-goal Nash.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Miller playing behind two other centers who can do the heavy lifting (while still getting quality linemates in Stemp/Zucc) would be ideal for his development, too.

 

[TheTakedown]

again, I'm no Joe Thornton fanboy, but holy hell.... this is a serious cup caliber roster.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Joe Thornton ($5.400m—20.00%) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Kreider ($2.475m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Mats Zuccarello ($3.500m)
Tanner Glass ($1.450m) / Matthew Lombardi ($0.800m) / Lee Stempniak ($0.900m)
Chris Mueller ($0.600m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Boyle ($4.500m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Mike Kostka ($0.650m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,481,667; BONUSES: $1,200,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $518,333

Ideally JT Miller should be the centermen, but you see that in the event he can only play wing effectively, then there's Moore and Lombardi who can take either the 3C or 4C spot.

EIther way, with Moore or Lombardi in the 4C spot, the ONLY question mark on the roster is the 3rd line, which would effecively be anchored by Zucc, who naturally makes fast skaters/stick handlers around him better, so even that is eased away too

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

No way in hell the Sharks retain 20%

 

[TheTakedown]

No way in hell the Sharks retain 20%

the lowest you can go without shipping out another roster player is 15%...

unless they want Tanner Glass, then we can save another $600k by signing Ryan Carter for $800k

There is no other way unfortunately... I see no roster player that a) is a fit for SJS, and b) leaves a hole that can actually be replaced by a prospect.

I'm not for trading Hagelin, and the "trade" made above is assuming John Moore goes the other way and Allen takes his spot...

Unless Staal goes instead of Moore, at which point you have the capspace to do this, but then there is a gaping hole at 2LD, which then assumes John Moore can play those 2LD minutes, which he absolutely cannot.
the only other option is shipping Klein instead of Staal, and hoping that Allen can hold down the right side, which I also think is a pipe dream, albeit less than shipping Staal away


Even then, I don't think the Sharks want defensemen, do they?