- Sep 17, 2007
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So trade Nash for Thornton. I'm not interested in trading multiple smaller cap hits for him. Our cap situation is already tight enough.
Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part II
- Thread starter BBKers
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So trade Nash for Thornton. I'm not interested in trading multiple smaller cap hits for him. Our cap situation is already tight enough.
Also consider to concur, PROVIDED
we have roster spot and $$ available for max ELC for Hayes
and
enough cushion for whoever else we need (approaching 50 contract max)
That's a valid reason to not want to trade for him.
I was merely pointing out that to not want him because his teams haven't won The Cup and thus labeling him "a loser" isn't valid.
The Rangers haven't won since 94. Does that mean Lundqvist and Bure and Lindros and Jagr and Straka and all the players who played for the Rangers the past 20 years were losers?
Like I've said, Id love Joe Thornton, but not if the cost to acquire him is overpayment.
Staal, Kristo, Miller, Fast/McIlrath would be my best offer.
BBKers
Registered User
Ideally we sign Hayes plus another NHL depth player With some Geir that Will fit in. Puts us at 50. Then we do a trade 2 for 1 after camp. Maybe even an AHL deal. Leaves one spot open. What would it take to get a Young center With some upside (or the rights to Burmitstrov)???
I will say this about Thornton...his lack of goal scoring ability does hurt him a bit. To be considered among the elite, you'd like to see some big game goals, not secondary assists. Maybe it's just optics, but that would be one knock. Another would be that playoff series or two that he scores 1.25 - 1.5 points per game. Every player you talk about wanting who has won has had that series. The one player who had that series and lost is Lindros. He deserved a cup. Leetch, 34 points in 23 games (11 goals). Sakic had a couple monster playoffs (and never a dud). And I think some of it has to do with his lack of scoring ability. I always liked the guy and have defended him in here, but if there was a knock, there you have it.
pld459666
Registered User
He HAS been on a team that is looked at as a serious contender and he has failed time and again at getting SJ over the hump.
Thornton in a nut shell
3 points in the first three games against LA, 0 points in the four straight losses while going -6
9 shots in first three games, 7 in next four
I believe that he DOES possess that loser quality. Because whent he games ride on your best players and Joe Thornton is a great playmaker, he CONSISTENTLY pulls a no show.
132 Playoff games - 7 game winners
He hasn't been able to put a better Sharks team over the top. I see no reason he could do that here.
LaffyTaffyNYR
Registered User
- Feb 25, 2012
- 17,113
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I wish Brassard could go instead of Staal, but not sure they need him with Pavs and Couture.
pld459666
Registered User
just relating what i think is a very telling view point by a few fans that rooted for that team.
You're desperately looking for stats to skew the argument in your favor. And worse, you're cherry picking and calling a 7 game sample size a trend.
"Thornton in a nutshell" is the 100 points in 132 playoff games, not the 7 game sample size you cherry picked.
I also love how you use the fact that the sharks have been perennial contenders but never got over the hump...AGAINST Thornton, as if his ~85-90 points per season didn't play a major role in their success in the regular season and looking like contenders.
You have no legitimate argument. Nonsense.
Me too. Agreed.
OverTheCap
Registered User
- Jan 3, 2009
- 10,454
- 184
Loser or not, sacrificing depth to acquire a yet another playmaker like Thornton seems kind of redundant when we already have Stepan, Brassard, Zucc, and MSL. I am fairly confident in this team's ability to pass the puck, but they could use some more finish.
pld459666
Registered User
You're desperately looking for stats to skew the argument in your favor. And worse, you're cherry picking and calling a 7 game sample size a trend.
"Thornton in a nutshell" is the 100 points in 132 playoff games, not the 7 game sample size you cherry picked.
I also love how you use the fact that the sharks have been perennial contenders but never got over the hump...AGAINST Thornton, as if his ~85-90 points per season wasn't a major part of them succeeding in the regular season and looking like contenders.
You have no legitimate argument. Nonsense.
I called him a great playmaker, he IS a great playmaker. Just not someone that I want on my team if I really want to win a cup.
He lacks the testicular fortitude to gett eh job done when most needed.
BobMarleyNYR
Rangers future on D
Just out of curiosity... IF Moore proves himslf capable of a top-4 role (on a deep D, behind Staal, of course), does anyone think Moore, Hagelin, Brassard and Talbot could get us Eric Staal plus? Would it be worth it? If too much turnover, replace anyone with Miller or Skeij...
LaffyTaffyNYR
Registered User
- Feb 25, 2012
- 17,113
- 2,662
I wouldn't offer that for Staal.. massive overpayment and I like Staal alot.
LaffyTaffyNYR
Registered User
- Feb 25, 2012
- 17,113
- 2,662
silverfish
got perma'd
Agreed.
Depending on the season Nash and NYR have coming up, I wouldn't be surprised to see Nash go in a deal in the summer of 2015. A 2C, middling prospect, and a 1st round pick in return. Solves a few issues this team has/will have. Assuming Brass on a one-year deal.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
- 13,694
- 1,493
The more I look, it seems penner or Winnik would be PERFECT for the 4th line, or a 3rd line plug...
Given the price, it might actually be better value to grab one of those guys over Dan Carcillo... though, there is a bit of chemistry between D. Moore and Carbomb, so lord knows what would actually be the best move...
Oddly enough, glancing at the advanced stats shows that Penner not only plays RW naturally (with a left hand shot), but his corsi possession stats are very high, and usually higher than the team's average possession. Also shows that he's held a decent +/- throughout his career, but especially in the last 2 years, and played against a decently high QoC (29.2% this year).... I don't know how good of a skater he is, but if he's put on the 4th line, skating speed won't be an emphasis of his game... He's a 30 point guy, and putting a 30 point guy with a 20-35 point centerman in Dominic Moore could yield some very necessary tertiary scoring beyond what the 2nd and 3rd line will provide.
Winnik seems to be much lesser in all of these stats... the plus of comparing these stats is that both of these guys played for Anaheim this past year, so you can rule out playing for different teams/systems, (though it has no effect on linemates, etc)
Winnik: http://www.extraskater.com/player/362/daniel-winnik
Penner: http://www.extraskater.com/player/101/dustin-penner
Given the price, it might actually be better value to grab one of those guys over Dan Carcillo... though, there is a bit of chemistry between D. Moore and Carbomb, so lord knows what would actually be the best move...
Oddly enough, glancing at the advanced stats shows that Penner not only plays RW naturally (with a left hand shot), but his corsi possession stats are very high, and usually higher than the team's average possession. Also shows that he's held a decent +/- throughout his career, but especially in the last 2 years, and played against a decently high QoC (29.2% this year).... I don't know how good of a skater he is, but if he's put on the 4th line, skating speed won't be an emphasis of his game... He's a 30 point guy, and putting a 30 point guy with a 20-35 point centerman in Dominic Moore could yield some very necessary tertiary scoring beyond what the 2nd and 3rd line will provide.
Winnik seems to be much lesser in all of these stats... the plus of comparing these stats is that both of these guys played for Anaheim this past year, so you can rule out playing for different teams/systems, (though it has no effect on linemates, etc)
Winnik: http://www.extraskater.com/player/362/daniel-winnik
Penner: http://www.extraskater.com/player/101/dustin-penner
Penner is slow and sucks. Winnik just sucks.
I'd be fine with Winnik on the fourth line on a 900k deal but we already have Glass, Moore, Lombardi, Fast, Lindberg, Mueller as possible fourth liners. Move on. We have bigger issues than building "the perfect fourth line" for opening night. The fourth line on October 8th is not likely to be the fourth line when we start the playoffs.
I'd be fine with Winnik on the fourth line on a 900k deal but we already have Glass, Moore, Lombardi, Fast, Lindberg, Mueller as possible fourth liners. Move on. We have bigger issues than building "the perfect fourth line" for opening night. The fourth line on October 8th is not likely to be the fourth line when we start the playoffs.
BobMarleyNYR
Rangers future on D
All players on our rosters are "loosers", 'cept MSL and Boyle.
People thinking Joe T would be Messier II would be amazing. There is no way around the fact that he would make us a lot better.
u cant use thorntons postseason production as a negative in a rick nash trade when rick is averaging under .5 PPG in the postseason. a straight up nash for thornton trade makes us better. SJ wouldnt do it.
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