Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part II

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Miller isn't a finished product. Kreider isn't a finished product. The Rangers learned to live with Kreider's mistakes. They need to live with Miller's mistakes. The veteran players make mistakes and their ice time isn't reduced. He is a center. He is cheap. Even if he has a good year, he will still be cheap in his next contract without arbitration rights. Look at the Rangers up for contracts next July. Staal will be the best group 3 D on the market. St. Louis. Stepan and Hagelin are arbitration eligible. Hagelin will be one year away from group 3. cap is going up but how much? More TV money. 4 fewer outdoor games. Canadian dollar.

I don't think AV has much choice but to play Miller this year. Sather was on record saying that he would have played if he didn't injure himself.

Miller improved dramatically as the season went along. If he comes in playing at the level he ended last season at, he'll get the Kreider treatment - which is plenty of offensive zone time and defensive substitutions late in the game or in our own zone.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Plenty of talk about the lines that AV will construct. He enjoyed his 4 line balance. He'll spread the talent throughout the first 3 lines and have the most dependable grinders on the 4th.

By all accounts, Kreider-Stepan-Nash, was an effective line in the regular season, and even at points in the post season. I don't think that line will be broken up barring them hitting an in-season snag.

Stempniak is more of a lock to get a spot than Lombardi, but both will likely be on the inside looking out to start camp. They're veterans and for fringe prospects to get a crack in the top 12, they'll need to outplay these 2 guys. I have no problems about that. Look at how John Idzik approaches team building. Competition at every position. If the prospects we have will ever make it into this league and be successful, they'll need to prove that they belong and are better than their competition.

For sake of argument, I'm going to argue that Lombardi slots in on the "3rd line" and Stempniak on the 4th, although conceivably that can flip flop.

My line predictions:

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Miller-MSL
Lombardi-Brassard-Zucc
Glass-Moore-Stempniak

I will add an addendum to these lines. I believe that while Miller is centering the "2nd line", he will regularly only be playing 13-16 minutes, as Kreider did on the 1st line. In place of him during late game situations where we hold the lead or defensive zone face-offs, I think that Vigneault will plug Lombardi into the 2nd line C duties, and slot Stempniak up on the 3rd line wing if he needs to make a quick change.

Finally, the prospects that I think will be competing with Stemp and Lombardi at the end of September:

1) Oscar Lindberg. I think he will give Lombardi a run for his money, and in the event of another injury, will be his immediate replacement.

2) Chris Mueller. On a 1 way contract, this guy seems to be primed to be our 13th forward for the majority of the year. Gritty, can slot into the 4th line well.

3) Jesper Fast. I'd imagine falling quickly in the eyes of management. Defensively responsible player that needs to shoot more. He had several chances to open the eyes of the coaches... but failed to make any type of impact on the game.

As for the defense...

Top 2 lines and one of the members on the 3rd pairing are set.

McD-G
Staal-Boyle
X-Klein

The X will probably be John Moore, but with only 11.4 mill to spend (after adding Miller's salary to the cap) and Kreider, Zucc, Brassard, and Moore to still resign... Moore may be a casualty. In which case, Conor Allen would assume the role there.

If Moore is resigned, Allen and McIlrath will be knocking on his door AND Klein's for that matter. Klein's 2.9 mill will be too rich for this team to keep if a prospect comes in and proves themselves. We have another round of free agents next year and I'll be damned if they let someone like Staal or Hagelin go without long term deals in place of keeping Klein's 2.9 mill.

 

[Fletch]

Perhaps. I don't think Sather will let Staal walk away for nothing if contract negotiations stall.

he may not, although he can also do a Staal + for someone. Sather isn't opposed to that either, especially if the team is in the thick of a playoff run.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

he may not, although he can also do a Staal + for someone. Sather isn't opposed to that either, especially if the team is in the thick of a playoff run.

I think he pushes the envelope as far as it can go without being reckless.

No more amnesties means he'll have to really think about free agent splashes before he commits to them.

Not much high end talent in the farm means that he can't afford to send more assets for big time players.

I can see him doing a lateral move, maybe, like a 1 for 1.

 

[Fletch]

I think he pushes the envelope as far as it can go without being reckless.

No more amnesties means he'll have to really think about free agent splashes before he commits to them.

Not much high end talent in the farm means that he can't afford to send more assets for big time players.

I can see him doing a lateral move, maybe, like a 1 for 1.

It always will depend on what the fax he receives in February says...meaning, which player is available and if Sather has a hard-on for him, as well as where the Rangers are in the standings.

 

[Trxjw]

Brad Richards was gifted offensive zone starts all year. Defensively he was lacking. He was a good PP player. I am confused as to why Miller has to be some defensive whiz.

Time to start developing some of these younger guys. Fast. Lindberg. Miller. Kristo. Decide who is in the plans of the team/organization and let them grow.

He doesn't have to be a defensive whiz. Some of us simply expect him to not be a liability. It's far, far easier to hide the defensive mistakes of a winger than it is of a center, so when people say we had to live with the deficiencies of Kreider, it's really not a valid comparison.

 

[NYR Viper]

He doesn't have to be a defensive whiz. Some of us simply expect him to not be a liability. It's far, far easier to hide the defensive mistakes of a winger than it is of a center, so when people say we had to live with the deficiencies of Kreider, it's really not a valid comparison.

Brad Richards was not a good defensive center though. He isn't going to replacing Stepan or Patrice Bergeron

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

He doesn't have to be a defensive whiz. Some of us simply expect him to not be a liability. It's far, far easier to hide the defensive mistakes of a winger than it is of a center, so when people say we had to live with the deficiencies of Kreider, it's really not a valid comparison.

Tired of the narrative that Miller is a "defensive liability". He is no more so a defensive liability than Nash is, or Kreider, or Zucc, etc.

He takes risks. What player doesn't? MSL holds onto the puck too long, loses it, creates an odd man rush, no one calls him a liability. Miller does the same thing? This board erupts.

He plays hard. He has to be more consistent with his effort. His offensive skill is there. His effort needs to be better. Late in the season, he had improved this facet of being a professional. He's aggressive. I like that.

But he's not a defensive liability, in relative comparison to most of our veteran players. He's certainly more defensively responsible than Poo and this board not only lived with Poo's mistakes but embraced them.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Brad Richards was not a good defensive center though. He isn't going to replacing Stepan or Patrice Bergeron

Brad Richards was dare I say it, one of the worst defensive centers I have seen.

Slow skater. Couldn't get back on many rushes to help out the defense. Didn't play the boards well. Terrible decision maker. Oftentimes a decision he made directly led to a scoring chance for the other team. He was poor on face-offs. Didn't clog the lanes up well.

I don't really see anything that Miller can't improve upon. The 51 points will be tough to replicate, but if you break them down, Richards only had like 12 points for his final 3 months of play. Unacceptable. He disappeared in the playoffs. Detriment to that 2nd line until his final game.

 

[NYR Viper]

Brad Richards was dare I say it, one of the worst defensive centers I have seen.

Slow skater. Couldn't get back on many rushes to help out the defense. Didn't play the boards well. Terrible decision maker. Oftentimes a decision he made directly led to a scoring chance for the other team. He was poor on face-offs. Didn't clog the lanes up well.

I don't really see anything that Miller can't improve upon. The 51 points will be tough to replicate, but if you break them down, Richards only had like 12 points for his final 3 months of play. Unacceptable. He disappeared in the playoffs. Detriment to that 2nd line until his final game.

One would think that the difference between a full season of MSL + Miller would be at least equal to Callahan + Richards production.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

One would think that the difference between a full season of MSL + Miller would be at least equal to Callahan + Richards production.

I think we can realistically expect, 38-42 points out of JT this year, in this limited role. He'll get every opportunity to shine offensively with MSL. Just as Kreider had every opportunity to shine with Nash and Stepan.

Meanwhile the team tests Lombardi out with our most talented and creative winger. Does he still have it? He's capable of a 50 point season himself, if healthy. He just tore it up in the Swiss league... which isn't necessarily saying all the much, but is still promising nonetheless.

Lombardi is a guy that AV can utilize on that 2nd line to help them out defensively.

Rangers will again have 5 centers on this team, and I love that.

I think this team has the potential to be the #1 seed out of the Metro this year.

 

[Trxjw]

Tired of the narrative that Miller is a "defensive liability". He is no more so a defensive liability than Nash is, or Kreider, or Zucc, etc.

He takes risks. What player doesn't? MSL holds onto the puck too long, loses it, creates an odd man rush, no one calls him a liability. Miller does the same thing? This board erupts.

He plays hard. He has to be more consistent with his effort. His offensive skill is there. His effort needs to be better. Late in the season, he had improved this facet of being a professional. He's aggressive. I like that.

But he's not a defensive liability, in relative comparison to most of our veteran players. He's certainly more defensively responsible than Poo and this board not only lived with Poo's mistakes but embraced them.

Interestingly enough I'm tired of the comparisons between defensive responsibilities of centers, versus that of wingers. None of those players you listed play center. Not to mention that Zuccarello and Nash are actually quite responsible defensively and have spent time on the PK under AV.

He is a liability in his own end. Who is talking about people losing the puck at the blue line? I'm talking about him blowing coverage in his own zone, which he does often.

Also, I'll forgive his risk taking if he's a driving force offensively and pots better than .5PPG. Saying "MSL makes mistakes too" is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[RangerBoy]

Richards turned the puck over in game 2 of the finals. Right on the tape of the Kings player stick. Sather said Miller would have played more in the playoffs if he hadn't suffered a shoulder injury. He had an upper body injury in the Montréal series. Miller can't be afraid to make a mistake but he can't miss the net with his shot and then have the opposing team get an odd man break. He takes a dumb penalty at times. Pouliot took a million dumb penalties. Kreider takes some bad penalties.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Interestingly enough I'm tired of the comparisons between defensive responsibilities of centers, versus that of wingers. None of those players you listed play center. Not to mention that Zuccarello and Nash are actually quite responsible defensively and have spent time on the PK under AV.

He is a liability in his own end. Who is talking about people losing the puck at the blue line? I'm talking about him blowing coverage in his own zone, which he does often.

Also, I'll forgive his risk taking if he's a driving force offensively and pots better than .5PPG. Saying "MSL makes mistakes too" is absolutely ridiculous.

I thought it was a given that Miller couldn't possibly be as poor, defensively, as Brad Richards was for us for the final half of the season, and playoffs.

Additionally, Miller may very well be a winger. Just cause I think he'll center our "2nd line" doesn't mean that he will. Lombardi could be given that duty for all we know and Miller be the winger with Zucc and Brass... same position Poo was in.

AV certainly used him primarily as a winger this season.

 

[NYR Viper]

Richards turned the puck over in game 2 of the finals. Right on the tape of the Kings player stick. Sather said Miller would have played more in the playoffs if he hadn't suffered a shoulder injury. He had an upper body injury in the Montréal series. Miller can't be afraid to make a mistake but he can't miss the net with his shot and then have the opposing team get an odd man break. He takes a dumb penalty at times. Pouliot took a million dumb penalties. Kreider takes some bad penalties.

I think the Rangers have put themselves in a very good spot heading into the season. They have (2) 3rd/4th line centers who offer some grit, speed and 2-way play in Lombardi and Moore. Ideally they want them to play on the 4th line and have 5 centers total.

They have (2) players in Miller and Lindberg who have different strengths. Both are close to, if not NHL ready. Lindberg provides less flash, is better defensively and on face-offs and can PK right away in the NHL. Miller provides a bit more flash, is better offensively and has a bit more size.

I have said it before, I really think Lindberg is the player who grabs that 3c spot. PK. Face-offs. 2-way play. Good hockey IQ. That allows AV to not NEED to use Nash on the PK.

Moore
Lombardi
Lindberg
Stepan
Hagelin
Glass
MZA

Let MSL and Nash rest during the PK. It was a long playoffs last year. You need to keep those guys fresh and healthy.

4 centers to choose from means they have the advantage in the circle most of the time. Stepan, Lindberg, Lombardi and Moore.

 

[Mikos87]

Richards turned the puck over in game 2 of the finals. Right on the tape of the Kings player stick. Sather said Miller would have played more in the playoffs if he hadn't suffered a shoulder injury. He had an upper body injury in the Montréal series. Miller can't be afraid to make a mistake but he can't miss the net with his shot and then have the opposing team get an odd man break. He takes a dumb penalty at times. Pouliot took a million dumb penalties. Kreider takes some bad penalties.

That turnover was just awful, cost the team the game with the momentum shift. He turned it over because he was afraid to get hit. I like Richie, but that was a moment where I said to myself, if the Rangers blow a 2 goal lead in this game, then its all over.

Sadly it held true.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Brassard is better at managing the puck but he makes some absolutely bone-headed decisions in the defensive zone, especially on the backcheck, but largely gets a pass. Either because people don't understand the responsibilities of a C on the backcheck or because they are spouting off on a dman for not being able to cover 2 guys in the slot simultaneously.

Brad Richards last year...don't even get me started. It's not as if being Henrik Zetterberg was a requirement for ice time as a Ranger center last year. The bottom line with Miller is he needs to produce. His resume is far more advanced than Dubinsky's at the same age, so I still have faith in the kid. If he had not been called up (solely due to lack of depth) at 19 and 20, instead continuing PPG AHL production, people would be penciling him in and bragging about improved C depth vs last year.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I think the Rangers have put themselves in a very good spot heading into the season. They have (2) 3rd/4th line centers who offer some grit, speed and 2-way play in Lombardi and Moore. Ideally they want them to play on the 4th line and have 5 centers total.

They have (2) players in Miller and Lindberg who have different strengths. Both are close to, if not NHL ready. Lindberg provides less flash, is better defensively and on face-offs and can PK right away in the NHL. Miller provides a bit more flash, is better offensively and has a bit more size.

I have said it before, I really think Lindberg is the player who grabs that 3c spot. PK. Face-offs. 2-way play. Good hockey IQ. That allows AV to not NEED to use Nash on the PK.

Moore
Lombardi
Lindberg
Stepan
Hagelin
Glass
MZA

Let MSL and Nash rest during the PK. It was a long playoffs last year. You need to keep those guys fresh and healthy.

4 centers to choose from means they have the advantage in the circle most of the time. Stepan, Lindberg, Lombardi and Moore.

Lindberg has 2 spots that he can enter this team on.

1) Lombardi's
2) Miller's

I think that if Miller and Lindberg are neck to neck in training camp, that Miller gets the spot by default. He's more experienced, at this point in his career.

Same goes for Lindberg and Lombardi. Lombardi will likely get the spot if they're neck to neck.

Lombardi could come in and not cut it. He could get a 10 game stint and if he isn't as effective as he once was, Lindberg could come in immediately.

Miller could come in and absolutely blow his shot of having a permanent spot on the team. Same thing, 10 games in, if he's doing that, Lindberg could come in and take that spot.

But Lindberg definitely has a legit shot. He'll have to come in and take a spot on the 4th line, though. Our top 3 lines held offensive balance. That was their key. Lindberg on the 3rd line with Zucc and Brassard might not cut it, just as Fast didn't on the 2nd line with Hagelin and Richards.

I think Lindberg is a D. Moore clone, essentially. The way they play is really similar.

He has 2 guys he's competing with. He needs to come in and outplay one of them.

 

[NYR Viper]

Lindberg has 2 spots that he can enter this team on.

1) Lombardi's
2) Miller's

I think that if Miller and Lindberg are neck to neck in training camp, that Miller gets the spot by default. He's more experienced, at this point in his career.

Same goes for Lindberg and Lombardi. Lombardi will likely get the spot if they're neck to neck.

Lombardi could come in and not cut it. He could get a 10 game stint and if he isn't as effective as he once was, Lindberg could come in immediately.

Miller could come in and absolutely blow his shot of having a permanent spot on the team. Same thing, 10 games in, if he's doing that, Lindberg could come in and take that spot.

But Lindberg definitely has a legit shot. He'll have to come in and take a spot on the 4th line, though. Our top 3 lines held offensive balance. That was their key. Lindberg on the 3rd line with Zucc and Brassard might not cut it, just as Fast didn't on the 2nd line with Hagelin and Richards.

I think Lindberg is a D. Moore clone, essentially. The way they play is really similar.

He has 2 guys he's competing with. He needs to come in and outplay one of them.

I think you're selling Lindberg's offensive game short. 1st full season in NA and he had over 40 points on an AWFUL AHL team. On top of that, he has always been a player who creates offense based on his defensive game. Turnovers and hard work. I think he has 40 point potential in the NHL.

 

[Ola]

Richards turned the puck over in game 2 of the finals. Right on the tape of the Kings player stick. Sather said Miller would have played more in the playoffs if he hadn't suffered a shoulder injury. He had an upper body injury in the Montréal series. Miller can't be afraid to make a mistake but he can't miss the net with his shot and then have the opposing team get an odd man break. He takes a dumb penalty at times. Pouliot took a million dumb penalties. Kreider takes some bad penalties.

I thought it was a given that Miller couldn't possibly be as poor, defensively, as Brad Richards was for us for the final half of the season, and playoffs.

Additionally, Miller may very well be a winger. Just cause I think he'll center our "2nd line" doesn't mean that he will. Lombardi could be given that duty for all we know and Miller be the winger with Zucc and Brass... same position Poo was in.

AV certainly used him primarily as a winger this season.

Agreed.

Miller has gotten a rep because he plays without abandon offensively, and when everything is on the line that's of course not optimal. But you OTOH don't want a teenager not trying to max his potential. His 2-way game will sort itself out. His offense will come. He will be alright unless he derails / whatever...

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I think you're selling Lindberg's offensive game short. 1st full season in NA and he had over 40 points on an AWFUL AHL team. On top of that, he has always been a player who creates offense based on his defensive game. Turnovers and hard work. I think he has 40 point potential in the NHL.

I see Dom Moore when I see Lindberg. Moore was an offensive catalyst on the 4th line. Think Lindberg could have a similar rep here on the same line.

Moore was overmatched on the 3rd line. That's my line of thinking.

 

[Bluenote13]

Finally seeing some talk about Lindberg. Man is he underrated around here.

 

[NYR Viper]

Finally seeing some talk about Lindberg. Man is he underrated around here.

I have been trying to talk about him for months

 

[silverfish]

I have been trying to talk about him for months

Same here. I think his two-way play and hockey IQ will shine in camp. I expect some smart play from him during the preseason. He'll do a good job pushing Miller. The fact that he's good on faceoffs and can immediately PK doesn't hurt his stock at all either...

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Same here. I think his two-way play and hockey IQ will shine in camp. I expect some smart play from him during the preseason. He'll do a good job pushing Miller. The fact that he's good on faceoffs and can immediately PK doesn't hurt his stock at all either...

Ideally, for me, Lindberg will force himself into Lombardi's spot on the team.

Lombardi becomes the 13th F, playing effectively and being preserved physically.

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Miller-MSL
Stempniak-Brassard-Zucc
Lindberg-Moore-Glass
Lombardi

Moore takes over Miller's defensive zone responsibilities in crunch time situations.