Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster building thread - Part VII

[AjaxTelamon]

Brad might... but I doubt Mike will. His contract gets better and better going forward. It might not be easy to move over the next yr or so, but it will be a moveable contract. Both will also cost ~20m to buyout, but I think NYR is more capable of handling that cost and more willing to bite the bullet than LA would be. I also think that Mike has a better chance of being able to bounce back to a 50pt checking center, vs Brad coming back to be a 60/70 pt offensive center.

Brad will probably get bought out, the NYR have a lot of guys to sign and Henrik's 8.5mil deal kicks in next year.

Mike is in a strange spot. His deal doesn't tail off as quickly as a lot of those long ones, he's still due 7 mil next year, and it ramps down to 3 mil, but not for a few years. So he's not appealing to cap floor teams, and he's not contributing enough to justify his cap hit. Their owner is talking about selling them again, so who knows what new ownership would do. Tough to justify almost 6 mil in cap hit for a checking center who has quite noticeably lost a step.

I don't see him ever coming close to 25 goals again unless he gets a ton of PP TOI. He hasn't scored like that since 2009. No MR on the Pens please.

 

[jdpitt05]

I feel like the Neal-Malkin line is one power forward away from being the best in the league.

 

[eXile59]

Elbows and knees to the head are not grit.

Yeah we should run him out of town like we did Cooke instead of putting onus on the coaching staff that allowed it. I mean it worked out well with Cooke. Our 3rd line was great and we had plenty of grit for the playoffs with Glass playing on it.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Alright, basing this off of my last lineup:

(A)-Malkin-Neal
Kunitz-Crosby-Kesler
Bennett-Goc-Dupuis
Sill-Vitale-Megna
Payerl, Gibbons

Despres-Letang
Martin-Bortuzzo
Samuelsson-Dumoulin
(B)

Fleury
Zatkoff

(A) is someone like Devante Smith-Pelley or Jaime McGinn.
Kesler replaces Callahan from my last lineup. I traded Sutter+ for him.
(B) is some AHL veteran that is on the NHL team til Maatta is healthy.

 

[drpepper]

No one is saying trade him for cap relief. But if you could get 2 decent prospects - 1 of whom is able to contribute at the NHL level now (say 20/25g) and a 1st round pick in a F heavy draft... would you not consider that?

At the end of the day, it's possible that none of those 3 assets would be as good as Neal. But we don't need someone to be as good as Neal, we just need players to be more effective in the spring... and it's quite possible that some youth in the form of 3 young guys could easily be more effective than Neal.

So is that a prospect who has played and produced in the NHL or a prospect who nets 20-25 goals in his rookie season?

For reference:
Players to get >19 goals in 1st or 2nd seasons in NHL
2013-2014: 6 (T Johnson, MacKinnon, Palat, Monahan, Tarasenko, Gallagher)
2012-2013: none
2011-2012: 7 (Eberle, Seguin, Hall, Read, Landeskog, Skinner, Hodgson)
2010-2011: 12 (Grabner, Couture, Skinner, Tavares, Duchene, Benn, Hall, Marchand, Stepan, JVR, Ennis, Kane)
2009-2010: 9 (Stamkos, Hornqvist, Stewart, Neal, Duchene, Tavares, Benn, Frolik, Sutter)

Several of these players have been traded after their >19 goal season including: Seguin, JVR, Hornqvist, Stewart & Frolik. Hodgson was traded during that season. Pens have two in Sutter and Neal. As far as I am aware none of them were traded as prospects. (Someone please correct me if I missed a trade)

 

[Fire Shero*]

Some other team needs to sign Kulemin. I will never understand how everyone on this damn site wants him to play with Geno. He's a third line defensive forward. Neal doesn't create nearly enough offense, Kulemin and his 11 assists will slow down Geno even more.

But but but they played well together in rhe KHL together 2 years ago!

Give me a break. Shero is gone - no need to play bottom six players with Geno and Sid anymore.

 

[eXile59]

Some other team needs to sign Kulemin. I will never understand how everyone on this damn site wants him to play with Geno. He's a third line defensive forward. Neal doesn't create nearly enough offense, Kulemin and his 11 assists will slow down Geno even more.

But but but they played well together in rhe KHL together 2 years ago!

Give me a break. Shero is gone - no need to play bottom six players with Geno and Sid anymore.

Which we need. In case of injury then maybe yes stepping into the top 6. I don't think we can afford him though if his price range is correct.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

I've seen the salary/contract chart numerous times, and for some reason it really jumped out at me this time:

We have numerous bad contracts that we need to dump, and I think that is really more important than who we sign. When you add together all the questionable to outright bad (Scuderi) contracts at both forwards/D - we really could have a lot of wiggle room to add some nice pieces of our priority was moving and trading some of those contracts.

 

[penguins2946*]

I'd rather not go after Kesler, just because I'd rather keep the 1st round pick and Pouliot. We could find a good enough winger for Crosby without gutting our future. If we could get him for Sutter, Dumoulin and a 2015 2nd, sure I'd do it. I'm not interested in losing Pouliot or the 1st rounder, at least not for a 30 year old natural center.

 

[Shockmaster]

Why do so many people want a vanilla fourth line?

 

[Your Boy Troy]

Grit? Who needs grit? Pittsburgh are the new Detroit Red Wings. Soft undersized speedy forwards that aren't fit for the fourth line? Hell to the yes!

Crosby under constant abuse? Who cares?! I am sure that he won't let his emotions get to him! Taking runs at our star players? Go right ahead! Throw a punch or even two.

 

[pensfan71]

Grit? Who needs grit? Pittsburgh are the new Detroit Red Wings. Soft undersized speedy forwards that aren't fit for the fourth line? Hell to the yes!

Crosby under constant abuse? Who cares?! I am sure that he won't let his emotions get to him! Taking runs at our star players? Go right ahead! Throw a punch or even two.

This is the exact reason I want Mike Richards.

Riptide may be right bout LA's capspace, but we would be fools to not want him here. Guy's one of the best vocal leaders in the league and isn't afraid to step up for his teammates

 

[sf expat71]

This is the exact reason I want Mike Richards.

Riptide may be right bout LA's capspace, but we would be fools to not want him here. Guy's one of the best vocal leaders in the league and isn't afraid to step up for his teammates

Not to mention there is no shortage of frat parties for him to attend in Pittsburgh!

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

This is the exact reason I want Mike Richards.

Riptide may be right bout LA's capspace, but we would be fools to not want him here. Guy's one of the best vocal leaders in the league and isn't afraid to step up for his teammates

He's been kind of invisible for the Kings, though.
He's regressed a bit since leaving the Flyers, actually - unlike Carter.


And I'm not saying it would be horrible - there are a number of players who fit the mold (generally speaking).
I'd only feel comfortable if the pens get them for pennies on the dollar. Ideally I would want to see young players who can put in a good chunk of the early part of there careers in Pittsburgh.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Not to mention there is no shortage of frat parties for him to attend in Pittsburgh!

And his buddy Carter will be close behind

 

[KIRK]

It's tough to have an honest debate about its validity with everyone saying "40 goals" and not much else.

He's a 6'2 210 lb 5 million dollar player who feels he can give partial effort much of the time and doesn't need to use his size. It's a pretty good example of why this team fails in the playoffs.

Bingo.

There are two James Neal's.

The James Neal we have is a guy who for all intents and purposes gives you Petr Sykora in the playoffs.

You know what? That's worth 5 million a year. That's the market rate.

BUT, that guy doesn't help Geno get to HIS game in the playoffs. That guy benefits when Geno somehow gets there on his own.

Then, there's the James Neal the Pens acquired from Dallas. A true goal scorer with one of the best shots in the league who brought you a legit two way game and would play some like a power forward.

Day Neal moved to RW ended that.

So, here's the question: Which Neal will the Pens get?

Neal who for all intents and purposes and especially in the playoffs is a 5M Sykora? What you can get for him in a bidding war will be worth more than that guy.

The Neal we could have with a different coach and a switch back to LW? Tough call.

Personally, I try to envision what a guy who played like that on Neal's contract is worth and then say to myself the only way I move Neal this summer is if someone pays THAT price.

Otherwise, I want to see how things shake out with a new coach.

 

[KIRK]

Some other team needs to sign Kulemin. I will never understand how everyone on this damn site wants him to play with Geno. He's a third line defensive forward. Neal doesn't create nearly enough offense, Kulemin and his 11 assists will slow down Geno even more.

But but but they played well together in rhe KHL together 2 years ago!

Give me a break. Shero is gone - no need to play bottom six players with Geno and Sid anymore.

Yeah, Kulemin getting Geno the puck, going to the net so Geno can get off his wrist shot where the goalie is screened, always being in great defensive position so Geno will feel uninhibited taking risks offensively and defensively . . . basically doing things that help Geno get to HIS game, especially in a playoff setting . . . yep, those things are totally going to slow him down.

Give ME a break. Geno's three best playoffs? 2008 = Malone. 2009 = Talbot. 2014 = when he was on his WING but with Sid and Kunitz. Every situation, less than ideal. BUT, every situation, intended or not, put Geno into position to play HIS game.

This is the difference between managing a team where your aim is to find fits for Sid and Geno to help them get to THEIR games and acting like putting a roster together is like partaking in a fantasy league.

YOU care about who scores how many regular season points. I care about Geno having the puck on his stick with time and space and an unscreened goalie in the playoffs.

Which we need. In case of injury then maybe yes stepping into the top 6. I don't think we can afford him though if his price range is correct.

So, then who plays with Geno? Beau automatically slotted into the top 6? A flyer on a guy like Seto where you have less evidence of a potential fit with Sid or Geno?

I'm guessing you, unlike Rotisserie Boy, don't think this is like NHL 14, where you can override trade rejections and have no salary cap.

 

[pensfan71]

Yeah, Kulemin getting Geno the puck, going to the net so Geno can get off his wrist shot where the goalie is screened, always being in great defensive position so Geno will feel uninhibited taking risks offensively and defensively . . . basically doing things that help Geno get to HIS game, especially in a playoff setting . . . yep, those things are totally going to slow him down.

Give ME a break. Geno's three best playoffs? 2008 = Malone. 2009 = Talbot. 2014 = when he was on his WING but with Sid and Kunitz. Every situation, less than ideal. BUT, every situation, intended or not, put Geno into position to play HIS game.

This is the difference between managing a team where your aim is to find fits for Sid and Geno to help them get to THEIR games and acting like putting a roster together is like partaking in a fantasy league.

YOU care about who scores how many regular season points. I care about Geno having the puck on his stick with time and space and an unscreened goalie in the playoffs.





So, then who plays with Geno? Beau automatically slotted into the top 6? A flyer on a guy like Seto where you have less evidence of a potential fit with Sid or Geno?

I'm guessing you, unlike Rotisserie Boy, don't think this is like NHL 14, where you can override trade rejections and have no salary cap.

You can?

 

[KIRK]

You can?

Apparently. Haven't you seen some of the rosters constructed here?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

What do you think chances are Sutter will be moved this summer? If he is moved would a Morin + 1st (Or prospect like Mark McNeill) be of any potential sense for trade?

As a Hawk fan if Sutter could be added to allow Shaw to play #2C at start of year (Until Teravainen is ready) I would be thrilled

 

[Human]

What do you think chances are Sutter will be moved this summer? If he is moved would a Morin + 1st (Or prospect like Mark McNeill) be of any potential sense for trade?

As a Hawk fan if Sutter could be added to allow Shaw to play #2C at start of year (Until Teravainen is ready) I would be thrilled

The Pens just like the Hawks don't have time to move roster players for prospects and futures...

 

[Sivek]

What do you think chances are Sutter will be moved this summer?

Doubtful since the team just hired the GM that drafted him and traded for his cousin.

 

[KIRK]

What do you think chances are Sutter will be moved this summer? If he is moved would a Morin + 1st (Or prospect like Mark McNeill) be of any potential sense for trade?

As a Hawk fan if Sutter could be added to allow Shaw to play #2C at start of year (Until Teravainen is ready) I would be thrilled

Two schools of thought:

1. JR loves Sutter. Regretted so much trading him. Going to sign him no matter what.

2. JR loved Sutter as his future #2 center but not as much as the prospect of Staal. He's got 2 centers in Pittsburgh. He's got a lot of cap issues and pressing needs up front to correct the bottom six mix and get enough guys who legitimately make some sense with Sid and Geno. Sutter at 3M on a bridge deal doesn't inhibit that too much. Sutter at 4M+ on a long term deal does. That is to say, whether Sutter stays depends on his price.

I personally think Sutter at 3C for anything much more than 3M is a luxury on a team with far more pressing needs up front.

I am inclined to think that JR will as well. After all, isn't that why he traded Sutter in the first place?

Now, IF that is the case, then I can see either the type of package you're proposing being one way that JR goes (the other being Sutter as part of some larger deal).

The Pens just like the Hawks don't have time to move roster players for prospects and futures...

Well, aside from the fact that's what the Hawks did with like 3-4 comparably aged players (who were better players too) when they did their reboot a few years ago.

Aside from that, though, it's a really great comparison.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I was thinking your Sutter situation would be comparable to Hawks Brouwer situation

A guy who wants too much $$$ for position that is already deep on Pens and team would be better off improving elsewhere

Hawks sent Brouwer as RFA to Caps for 1st rounder because they had several wing prospects (Saad/Shaw) close to NHL and guys like Frolik/Bickell/etc already on NHL roster

 

[billybudd]

What do you think chances are Sutter will be moved this summer? If he is moved would a Morin + 1st (Or prospect like Mark McNeill) be of any potential sense for trade?

As a Hawk fan if Sutter could be added to allow Shaw to play #2C at start of year (Until Teravainen is ready) I would be thrilled

I'd happily move him, but I'm not certain Jim Rutherford would, given that he drafted the player and initially balked at including him in the Staal trade.

I was thinking your Sutter situation would be comparable to Hawks Brouwer situation

A guy who wants too much $$$ for position that is already deep on Pens and team would be better off improving elsewhere

Hawks sent Brouwer as RFA to Caps for 1st rounder because they had several wing prospects (Saad/Shaw) close to NHL and guys like Frolik/Bickell/etc already on NHL roster

Eh. There's no obvious internal guy that can backfill him, so it would require another trade or a signing. Maybe if Shero hadn't traded Mark Letestu for a 5th round pick (headdesk.jpg) it would be easier to do.