2005 Sharks vs. 2023 Sharks

[Sharksfan66]

In the main roster discussion thread, there's been some discussion about where this team is at compared to the 2005-06 team before Jumbo arrived. I was surprised to see how many people felt that the 05-06 team seems to have been in a much better place than we are today, since the only season I can recall being harder to watch than the past 2 was 05-06 pre Jumbo trade. (To be fair, I'm too young to really remember the early expansion years. I just remember thinking hockey = fun back then.)

Anyway, I decided to do a player by player breakdown on the 05-06 team.

I tried my best to compare players with similar styles/roles to make it as fair as possible. It's been a minute since the 05-06 season, so I'm sure I didn't do this perfectly, but here's what I remember

Fowards:
Patty > Hertl
Sturm = Couture
Cheech > Leblanc
Ekman = Barabanov
Michalek = Eklund
Bernier < Bordeleau
Goc < Sturm
McCauley = Kunin
Smith = Lorentz
S. Thornton = Zetterlund
Dimitrakos = Gregor
Nieminen = Raska
Langfeld (I literally can’t remember this guy at all but he apparently played 39 games) = Svechnikov?

Young forwards that weren’t quite regulars yet:
Clowe = Gadjovich (I love what Clowe turned into but in 2005, but that would have shocked anyone watching in 05-06)
Rissmiller = Kaut
Dimitrakos/Stevenson = Peterson/Gushchin


Defense:
Stuart <<< Ek 65
Preissing > Benning
McLaren = Simek
Ehrhoff < Knyzhov
Hannan = Vlassic
Carle < Thrun (Hindsight maybe biasing me here, I was really excited about Carle after the 05-06 season, but I am also excited about Thrun now…hope it goes differently this time!)
Gorges < Ferraro
Davison < MacDonald
Murray = Muk

Goaltending:
Nabokov >>> Kahkonen
Toskala >> Makiniemi, Dell, etc?

I didn't even know where to begin with prospects who didn't see NHL time in 05-06, but since Pavelski made his NHL debut the following year, I'll just do one: Pavs >/=/< 4OA?? Who knows??

Summary:
I'd give the 05-06 team a slight nod on the forward group (mainly due to age) but I'd give the current team a considerable nod on D. Goaltending's where it's not close, so maybe that's the big difference, but aside from that, I see these teams as being in pretty similar spots. They both stink, to be clear, but as we saw in 05-06 things can change quickly with the right moves!

Now, as @mogambomoroo pointed out, it was a different league back then, so it's probably a moot point, but I thought this was an intersting thought exercise to compare the 2 teams. Especially since we won't have much to do for the next 6 weeks...

So what say you?
Who am I underrating/overrating here?
And which team would you take in a 7 game series if these 2 Sharks teams were playing each other?

Click to read more...

 

[WTFetus]

Quickly glancing through the comparisons that stand out to me.

Marleau < Hertl. Marleau was a 50 point forward until after the lockout and rule changes. So going into the season, I'd give Hertl the edge.
Sturm < Couture. Don't really see how you can argue otherwise.
Bernier > Bordeleau. This shouldn't be close.
Clowe > Gadjovich. He was dominant in Cleveland.
McCauley > Kunin
I'd probably give Ekman the slight edge over Barabanov.

McLaren > Simek. This shouldn't be close at all.
'05 Hannan > '23 Vlasic
Ehrhoff > Knyzov
Carle = Thrun

I feel like the '23 team is more top-heavy (Hertl, Couture, EK65), but the forward and defense depth of the '05 team was better. I think you're really underselling the '05 d-corp. And of course the goaltending completely outclasses the '23 goaltending.

 

[Jargon]

Quickly glancing through the comparisons that stand out to me.

Marleau < Hertl. Marleau was a 50 point forward until after the lockout and rule changes. So going into the season, I'd give Hertl the edge.
Sturm < Couture. Don't really see how you can argue otherwise.
Bernier > Bordeleau. This shouldn't be close.
Clowe > Gadjovich. He was dominant in Cleveland.
McCauley > Kunin
I'd probably give Ekman the slight edge over Barabanov.

McLaren > Simek. This shouldn't be close at all.
'05 Hannan > '23 Vlasic
Ehrhoff > Knyzov
Carle = Thrun

I feel like the '23 team is more top-heavy (Hertl, Couture, EK65), but the forward and defense depth of the '05 team was better. I think you're really underselling the '05 d-corp. And of course the goaltending completely outclasses the '23 goaltending.

Came to make similar comments. Maclaren was a very good defensive defenseman that would kill guys with his hip checks. Hannan was very good and Bernier, while didn’t ever reach his potential, is better than Bordeleau simply because he was a regular NHLer. Also I remember he scored off a one-handed wrist shot once while holding a guy back one time and I’ve never seen anyone do that before or after.

But yeah, I think I have a similar premise - most of the 05 defensemen were very competent whereas I think our corp is mostly bottom pairing defensemen and Karlsson. Thrun came in and looked like a star and I think that’s almost entirely because he’s likely a middle defenseman and he looked significantly better than most of our other guys.

And yeah, comparing Nabby to Kahkonen is like comparing apples to a fruit that can’t stop any goals.

I will agree with the original poster though — hockey is a funny game sometimes and while it feels like we’re a million miles away from the playoffs, it’s the kind of game where the right move or two, the right strategy change, the right influx of talent can turn a team around. Say Muhk comes in and he’s a top 2D and that Russian goalie we signed is Nabby-level. Suddenly, a lot of those OT games we lost become wins. Maybe Eklund shoots off, brings Hertl back to life… maybe there’s a trade or FA signing that really works out. It’s very unlikely but things like that can happen, they happen all the time, and I do appreciate that about hockey.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

I think the thing you are missing is age of the core players. The best players on our current team are on the downside of their career while the best players on the 2005 team were relatively young.

 

[Shark in Hockeytown]

Cup for the Sharks just made the main point I would make, but to bring it home I put in the ages of all these players at the beginning of the 05-06 season and the beginning of next season.

Fowards:
Patty 26 > Hertl 29
Sturm 27 = Couture 34
Cheech 25 > Leblanc 27
Ekman 30 = Barabanov 26
Michalek 21 = Eklund 20/21
Bernier 21< Bordeleau 21
Goc 22< Sturm 28
McCauley 29 = Kunin 25
Smith 27 = Lorentz 26
S. Thornton 34 = Zetterlund 23
Dimitrakos 26 = Gregor 25
Nieminen 29-acquired by trade during season = Raska 22
Langfeld (I literally can’t remember this guy at all but he apparently played 39 games) = Svechnikov? 26

Young forwards that weren’t quite regulars yet:
Clowe 23 = Gadjovich 25 (I love what Clowe turned into but in 2005, but that would have shocked anyone watching in 05-06)
Rissmiller 26= Kaut 24
Dimitrakos/Stevenson = Peterson/Gushchin


Defense:
Stuart 24 <<< Ek 65 33
Preissing 26 > Benning 29
McLaren 28 = Simek 31
Ehrhoff 23 < Knyzhov 25
Hannan 26 = Vlassic 36
Carle 21 < Thrun 22 (Hindsight maybe biasing me here, I was really excited about Carle after the 05-06 season, but I am also excited about Thrun now…hope it goes differently this time!)
Gorges 21 < Ferraro 25
Davison 25 < MacDonald 30
Murray 25 = Muk 21

Goaltending:
Nabokov 30 >>> Kahkonen 27
Toskala 28 >> Makiniemi 24, Dell, etc?

Notice that in almost every comparison you made, the 05-06 player is younger than the 23-24 player. The 05-06 team was young; the 23-24 team is an old core with a bunch of youngster and a bunch of lower level players sandwiched between. Growth curves of a team matter a lot for future performance. Young teams are more likely to improve; old ones more likely to deteriorate.

 

[Sharksfan66]

This is a fun trip down memory lane, everyone.

Good points made all around, especially about age.

Only thing that has me scratching my head is all the Bordeleau hate. Or Bernier love? I just can't imagine anyone loving that guy, so I'm assuming it's Bordeleau hate.

I'll drop this here so someone can embarrass me if I'm wrong, but I'm telling you, Bords is going to put up more points in his rookie year than Bernier ever did in any of his seasons in the NHL.

 

[hohosaregood]

This is a fun trip down memory lane, everyone.

Good points made all around, especially about age.

Only thing that has me scratching my head is all the Bordeleau hate. Or Bernier love? I just can't imagine anyone loving that guy, so I'm assuming it's Bordeleau hate.

I'll drop this here so someone can embarrass me if I'm wrong, but I'm telling you, Bords is going to put up more points in his rookie year than Bernier ever did in any of his seasons in the NHL.

A 231 point season seems unlikely. Beating Bernier's total as a shark is also unlikely but significantly more doable if he hits 82.

I'd say it's more Bords "hate". He's got pace of play issues right now. His NHL play so far makes me think of a more skilled Tierney. Which could be a solid player but not that good.

 

[Sharksfan66]

A 231 point season seems unlikely. Beating Bernier's total as a shark is also unlikely but significantly more doable if he hits 82.

I'd say it's more Bords "hate". He's got pace of play issues right now. His NHL play so far makes me think of a more skilled Tierney. Which could be a solid player but not that good.

Could have worded that better

But really, my issues with Bernier were all about effort. He had the skill to be an impact scorer, just never seemed engaged, which was so frustrating to watch.

Bords on the other hand, I see what you mean by pace of play... But at least he seems engaged in the play. IMO he seems motivated enough (and smart enough) to figure it out eventually. Guess we'll see!