1980's Star Players and their poor longevity

TheStatican · Sep 19, 2023

For some reason the scoring forwards of the 1980's had the worst longevity of any generation going back to expansion. It wasn't just that they retired earlier but that their peak or prime also ended much sooner.

Here's how star players from generations both before and after the 80's compare, along with their last good season and the year they retired. Post expansion era players are those who had multiple good years after the O6 expansion and their best seasons before the 80's, but still may have had some good years in the 80's. 80's era stars are of course those who had their best years in the 80's though a few had their best years in the 90's such as Francis, Gilmour & Robitaille. One could argue that these player's were perhaps more 90's stars than but they many good years in the 80's as well so it's hard to not include them. I skipped over the 90's era star forwards players as many of them started in the 80's in order to create a clear separation and made then next group the lockout era stars. In most cases the cut off for a good season is 70 points or averaging a point a game while missing only limited time, around a dozen games. The threshold for the lower scoring post lockout era aside for the immediate high powerplay seasons is about 5 or so points less or around .9 ppg while missing some time.

Player	last good season	at age	retired at
Steve Vickers	83pt in '76	24	30
Mickey Redmond	77pt in '74	26	28
Terry O'Reilly	77pt in '79	27	33
Rick Martin	79pt in '80	28	30
Syl Apps	99pt in '76	28	32
Pierre Larouche	81pt in '84	28	32
Danny Grant	87pt in '75	28	32
Steve Shutt	73pt in '81	28	32
Fred Stanfield	78pt in '73	28	33
Garry Unger	83pt in '76	28	35
Bill Barber	89pt in '82	29	31
Ken Hodge	105pt in '74	29	33
Dennis Hull	68pt in '74	29	33
René Robert	73pt in '78	29	33
Reggie Leach	70pt in '81	30	32
Rick Kehoe	85pt in '82	30	33
Lanny McDonald	66in65 '84	30	35
Butch Goring	79pt in '80	30	35
Wayne Cashman	71pt in '76	30	37
Pete Mahovlich	69pt in '78	31	34
Rick MacLeish	74pt in '81	31	34
Yvan Cournoyer	74pt in '75	31	35
J.P. Parise	75pt in '73	31	37
Jacques Lemaire	97pt in '78	32	33
Darryl Sittler	83pt in '83	32	34
Pit Martin	71pt in '76	32	35
Red Berenson	69pt in '72	32	38
Dave Keon	73pt in '73	32 (36WHL)	41
Bobby Clarke	85pt in '83	33	34
Jean Pronovost	67pt in '79	33	36
Bobby Hull	117pt in '78	33 (39WHL)	41
Gilbert Perreault	83pt in '85	34	36
Vic Hadfield	73pt in '75	34	36
Kenny Wharram	69pt in '69	35	35
Rod Gilbert	75pt in '77	35	36
Stan Mikita	57in48 in 76	35	39
Frank Mahovlich	93pt in 78	35 (38WHL)	40
Phil Goyette	78pt in '70	36	38
Phil Esposito	78pt in 80	37	38
Alex Delvecchio	68pt in '70	37	41
Norm Ullman	69pt in '74	38	41
Jean Béliveau	76pt in '71	39	39
Jean Ratelle	73pt in 80	39	40
Johnny Bucyk	83pt in '76	40	42
Gordie Howe	71pt in 70	41 (49WHL)	51
Average		32.4	35.6

Player	last good season	at age	retired at
Craig Simpson	76pt in '89	21	27
Dan Quinn	93pt in '89	23	31
Jimmy Carson	73pt in '93	24	27
Tim Young	74 in '80	24	29
Troy Murray	71pt in '87	24	33
Dale McCourt	69pt in '82	25	27
Morris Lukowich	92pt in '82	25	30
Stan Smyl	88pt in '83	25	33
Réal Cloutier	67pt in '83	26	28
Barry Pederson	71pt in '88	26	30
Mike Bullard	103pt in '88	26	30
Kirk Muller	94pt in '93	26	36
Michel Goulet	106pt '88	27	33
Dennis Maruk	81pt in '83	27	33
Clark Gillies	77 in '82	27	33
Brent Sutter	68in67 in '90	27	35
Håkan Loob	85pt in '89	28	28
Anton Šťastný	72pt in '88	28	29
Patrik Sundström	76pt in '90	28	30
Mike Rogers	76pt in '83	28	31
Rick Vaive	69pt in '88	28	32
Wilf Paiement	76 in '84	28	32
Rick Tocchet	109 in '93	28	37
Mats Näslund	84pt in '89	29	30
Blaine Stoughton	76pt in '83	29	30
Tim Kerr	88pt in '89	29	33
Brian Bellows	71pt in '94	29	34
Glenn Anderson	72pt in '90	29	35
Bernie Nicholls	73 pt in '91	29	37
Mike Bossy	75pt in '87	30	30
Kent Nilsson	63in61 in '87	30	30
Pat LaFontaine	91pt in '96	30	32
Paul MacLean	71pt in '89	30	32
Dale Hawerchuk	86pt in '94	30	33
John Ogrodnick	74pt in '90	30	33
Bobby Smith	83pt in '89	30	34
Peter McNab	74 in '83	30	34
Denis Savard	70pt in '92	30	35
Dave Taylor	71pt in '86	30	38
Dave Andreychuk	99pt in '94	30	42
Charlie Simmer	60in55 in '86	31	33
Steve Larmer	70pt in '93	31	33
Brian Propp	73pt in '91	31	34
Bryan Trottier	82pt in '88	31	37
Neal Broten	69pt in '91	31	37
Bernie Federko	67in66 in '89	32	33
John Tonelli	68 in '90	32	34
Dino Ciccarelli	97pt in '93	32	38
Rick Middleton	68pt in '87	33	34
Jari Kurri	77pt in '94	33	37
Peter Šťastný	73pt in '90	33	38
Mike Gartner	68pt in '93	33	38
Luc Robitaille	88pt in '01	34	39
Steve Yzerman	79pt in '00	34	40
Doug Gilmour	73pt in '00	36	39
Joe Mullen	70pt in '94	36	39
Mark Messier	84pt in '97	36	43
Wayne Gretzky	90pt in '98	37	38
Ron Francis	77pt in '02	38	40
Average		29.4	33.7

Player	last good season	at age	retired at
Paul Stastny	79pt in '10	24	37
Mike Richards	66pt in '11	25	30
Jonathan Cheechoo	69pt in '07	26	29
Derek Roy	69pt in '10	26	31
Mike Cammalleri	82pt in '09	26	35
Zach Parise	69pt in '12	27	38
Alexander Semin	44in44 in '13	28	31
Simon Gagné	74pt in '09	28	34
Scott Gomez	70pt in '08	28	36
Ilya Kovalchuk	83pt in '12	28	36
Jason Pominville	73pt in '12	29	36
Martin Havlát	62pt in '11	29	34
Vincent Lecavalier	70pt in '10	29	35
Marián Gáborík	76pt in '12	29	35
Rick Nash	69pt in '15	30	33
Dany Heatley	64pt in '11	30	34
Thomas Vanek	68pt in '14	30	35
Milan Hejduk	70pt in '07	30	36
Todd Bertuzzi	71pt in '06	30	38
Jonathan Toews	81pt in '19	30	active?
Brad Richards	66pt in '12	31	35
Pavol Demitra	62in58 in '06	31	35
Marc Savard	88pt in '09	31	33
Alex Tanguay	69pt in '11	31	36
Nicklas Bäckström	74pt in '19	31	active
Markus Näslund	79pt in '06	32	35
Ryan Getzlaf	61in56 in '18	32	36
Patrick Sharp	70pt in '14	32	36
David Krejčí	73pt in '19	32	36
Vinny Prospal	71pt in '08	32	36
Peter Forsberg	75pt in '06	32	37
Jason Spezza	63in75 in '16	32	38
Jeff Carter	66pt in '17	32	38
Steven Stamkos	84pt in '23	32	active
John Tavares	80pt in '23	32	active
Paul Kariya	65pt in '08	33	35
Olli Jokinen	61pt in '12	33	36
Daniel Brière	68pt in '11	33	37
Jason Arnott	72pt in '08	33	37
Robert Lang	79pt in '04	33	39
Patrick Kane	92pt in '22	33	active
Brad Marchand	80pt in '22	33	active
Jamie Benn	78pt in '23	33	active
Eric Staal	76pt in '18	33	active
Blake Wheeler	65in71 in '20	33	active
Martin Straka	70pt in '07	34	35
Michael Nylander	83pt in '07	34	36
Mike Ribeiro	62pt in '15	34	36
Henrik Sedin	73pt in '15	34	37
Daniel Sedin	76pt in '15	34	37
Cory Stillman	65pt in '08	34	37
Shane Doan	60in72 in '11	34	40
Patrick Marleau	70pt in '14	34	41
Marián Hossa	60in72 in '14	35	38
Alex Kovalev	65in78 in '09	35	39
Patrik Eliáš	78pt in '12	35	39
Mike Modano	77pt in '06	35	40
Sidney Crosby	93pt in '23	35	active
Claude Giroux	79pt in '23	35	active
Anže Kopitar	74pt in '23	35	active
Evgeni Malkin	83pt in '23	36	active
Mats Sundin	78pt in '08	36	37
Henrik Zetterberg	68pt in '17	36	37
Pavel Datsyuk	65in63 in '15	36	37
Jarome Iginla	61in78 in '14	36	39
Rod Brind'Amour	82pt in '07	36	39
Joe Thornton	82pt in '16	36	42
Joe Sakic	100pt '07	37	39
Daniel Alfredsson	71pt in '10	37	41
Alexander Ovechkin	75pt in '23	37	active
Martin St. Louis	69pt in '14	38	39
Brendan Shanahan	62in67 in '07	38	40
Mark Recchi	68pt in '07	38	42
Joe Pavelski	77pt in '23	38	active
Ray Whitney	77pt in '12	39	41
Teemu Selänne	66pt in '12	41	43
Jaromír Jágr	67pt in '14	41	45
Average		32.7	36.8

	Last good season	Retired at
Expansion Era (45 players)	32.4	35.6
80's Stars (59 players)	29.4	33.7
Post Lockout (77 players)	32.7	36.8

I included the WHL time of 4 players in the expansion era who were obviously still big stars; Howe, Hull, Mahovlich & Keon. Removing their WHL years only reduces the expansion eras last good season average age to 31.9, still dramatically longer than the 80's era players. It should also be noted that the post lockout star forwards average age is likely only going to continue going up as many of the stars on the list are still active and highly productive.

Now the question of the thread is why exactly did the star forwards of the 80's have such poor longevity? I know they each have their own individual reasoning but as a collective whole their averages are a shocking three seasons less for their final good season and their retirement age compared to generations both before and after. Was it poor conditioning? A lack of health and nutritional knowledge? Though that would have arguably been even worse in the generation prior and yet they had far better longevity. The nature of the game? Was it more physical? Was it a lack of proper care and rehabilitation post injury? Or was it the money aspect? Hockey players earned far less then and most likely had long careers doing something else entirely after hockey ended for them. But would that have applied to the top stars as well? Could it have been the partying atmosphere? That sounds silly perhaps but there's more than a few stories out there about how star players took to the bottle and went out partied hard late into the night on a regular basis, something that is now absolutely not acceptable. But I honestly don't know about the validity of any these as the 80's were before my time watching hockey.

MadLuke · Sep 19, 2023

It depends on what we mean by poor, quality-quantity-too little-too much, for the health, nutrition, training affair. Some farm work could have been superb training and more common before.

Could they be the first or player "rich" enough for the stars and at a young age, to party a lot including the summer and not fear early retirement ?

Could it match the first generation of longer season, specially with the 4 round playoff and the start of international tourney ? For the islanders-oilers dynastie that went far in the playoff all the time....

Mike Bossy during his first 6 seasons played 466 regular season game, 89 playoff games, canada cup, CH-cup.

Bobby Hull did not miss many games during his first 6 seasons and played 412 regular season games, 38 playoff game (which was a lot at the time, played 12 games in two occasions), no international summer tourney, shorter season, longer rest.

Also travel, maybe was not purely getting better to better, 06 players was a lot of train from downtown to downtown in a restrained geographic north-east situation.

Post expension travel once Vancouver-Edmonton-Winnipeg-Colorado, etc... get teams maybe it was worst. After a while with private plane and large money it achieved to get back to the 06 quality or even better in the mid 90s-00s, but not necessarily the 70s-80s.

An other possible aspect could be has well just how good the young competition of the lates 80s, earlys 90s that group aged really well.

Mike C · Sep 19, 2023

MadLuke said:
It depends on what we mean by poor, quality-quantity-too little-too much, for the health, nutrition, training affair. Some farm work could have been superb training and more common before.

Could they be the first or player "rich" enough for the stars and at a young age, to party a lot including the summer and not fear early retirement ?

Could it match the first generation of longer season, specially with the 4 round playoff and the start of international tourney ? For the islanders-oilers dynastie that went far in the playoff all the time....

Mike Bossy during his first 6 seasons played 466 regular season game, 89 playoff games, canada cup, CH-cup.

Bobby Hull did not miss many games during his first 6 seasons and played 412 regular season games, 38 playoff game (which was a lot at the time, played 12 games in two occasions), no international summer tourney, shorter season, longer rest.

Also travel, maybe was not purely getting better to better, 06 players was a lot of train from downtown to downtown in a restrained geographic north-east situation.

Post expension travel once Vancouver-Edmonton-Winnipeg-Colorado, etc.. get team maybe it was worst. And a while with private plane and large money it achieved to get back to the 06 quality or even better.

An other possible aspect could be has well just how good the young competition of the lates 80s, earlys 90s that group aged really well.

Also the game was much more physical back then

Also, medical advances and techniques lend themselves to quicker recovery times today vs then

TheStatican · Sep 19, 2023

MadLuke said:
Could it match the first generation of longer season, specially with the 4 round playoff and the start of international tourney ? For the islanders-oilers dynastie that went far in the playoff all the time....

Mike Bossy during his first 6 seasons played 466 regular season game, 89 playoff games, canada cup, CH-cup.

Bobby Hull did not miss many games during his first 6 seasons and played 412 regular season games, 38 playoff game (which was a lot at the time, played 12 games in two occasions), no international summer tourney, shorter season, longer rest.

That's a very good point, I completely overlooked and underestimated the impact of that.

Seasons went from being 70 games pre expansion to 74 in '68 then 76 in '69 then 78 in '71 and finally 80 in '75 and travel went from being in just the north-east to cross-country. Now you suddenly have tp deal with all that jet lag and the restlessness that comes with traveling frequently. At first glace it doesn't seem like a huge increase but when combined with the 3rd playoff round they added in '67 and then the 4th playoff round in '75 and now everyone is basically playing 20+ more games per year. And then they just keep tacking on more games to that first playoff round, it becomes a best of 5 in '80, then a best of 7 in '87. And lastly throw in all the international tournaments the big stars would go to, which didn't even exists prior to '72, it's no wonder players worn down faster.

I could understand why longevity increased afterwards but couldn't get why it was higher before the 80's but I think this nails it right on the head.

The Panther · Sep 19, 2023

I've always thought it as 1950s-born guys had shorter careers, and 1960s' born guys suddenly had longer careers. That's probably an over-simplification, but it seems to have panned out largely like that.

I grabbed the 1978 top point scorers (NHL), who were:
1. Guy Lafleur • MTL
2. Bryan Trottier • NYI
3. Darryl Sittler • TOR
4. Jacques Lemaire • MTL
5. Denis Potvin • NYI
6. Mike Bossy • NYI
7. Terry O'Reilly • BOS
8. Bobby Clarke • PHI / Gilbert Perreault* • BUF
10. Wilf Paiement • CLR / Lanny McDonald • TOR
12. Steve Shutt • MTL
13. Clark Gillies • NYI

So, most of these guys were born in the 1950s. Lemaire was not, so I'll ignore him, and Clarke wasn't quite but only missed it by a few months, so I'll include him. So, this gives us a dirty dozen (quite literally, as this was the late-70s... Have a shower, guys!). Of those 12, who had a notably long career?
Trottier
McDonald
(Lafleur)

That's really it. Lafleur, of course, had a 2nd act and was 39 when he last played, but as he was pushed into retirement before that at age 32/33, I don't think he completely qualifies.

Then, jump forward 10 years and it's the top scorers from 1987-88:
1. Mario Lemieux • PIT
2. Wayne Gretzky • EDM
3. Denis Savard • CHI
4. Dale Hawerchuk • WIN
5. Mark Messier • EDM / Luc Robitaille • LAK / Peter Šťastný • QUE
8. Jimmy Carson • LAK
9. Michel Goulet • QUE / Håkan Loob • CGY
11. Mike Bullard • CGY
12. Steve Yzerman • DET
13. Jari Kurri* • EDM

Peter Šťastný is clearly excluded as he was born in the 1950s, so again that leaves us blow-dried, mullet-ed dozen. How many had notably long careers?:
(Lemieux)
Gretzky
Messier
Robitaile
Yzerman
Kurri

Lemieux is like Lafleur in that he retired early but then came back.
Then, you've got Hawerchuk and Savard making it to age 34 and 35. Loob chose to leave the NHL so he's kind of disqualified.

I remember, as a kid in the late 1980s, they would talk about 30-year-old NHL players who started in the 1970s as dinosaur-ed fossils. But many of the 20-something guys in the 1980s went on to be among the game's best players in their 30s in the 1990s.

Anyway, just more guys lasting longer from the 80s' era. And I think if I stretch it to the early-90s, it's even more guys lasting longer.

Why?

I think there are 2 main reasons:
1) Sports / Athletic culture
2) Money

The 1950s' born guys were in a less athletic environment. More beer culture, if you will. By the 1980s, fitness was 'in' and anti-drugs was 'in' and people were making more health-conscious decisions. People were just more aware of the dangers of poor lifestyle.

Salaries grew from the late-70s and well into the 80s, but started getting really big for top-end players by the latter half of the 1980s. Mark Messier was making 250,000 or something in 1984, and in 1997 was making $6 million for being half the player he'd been before. When you know the salaries are going to set you up for life, there's a hell of a lot more motivation to stay clean, stay in shape, and extend your career by any means possible.

Stephen · Sep 19, 2023

I don’t know if the premise is even factual. A good representative of elite forwards who got their starts in the early to mid 80s were still hanging around the game in the 2000s, on either side of the 2005 lockout give or take a season or two. I’m thinking of players like Lemieux, Yzerman, Oates, Francis, Hull, Gilmour, Messier, Roberts, Andreychuk, Nieuwendyk, all still hanging around, collecting big paycheques well into their late 30s. The league felt very old around 2003-04.

LightningStorm · Sep 19, 2023

The Panther said:
Anyway, just more guys lasting longer from the 80s' era. And I think if I stretch it to the early-90s, it's even more guys lasting longer.

Why?

I think there are 2 main reasons:
1) Sports / Athletic culture
2) Money

The 1950s' born guys were in a less athletic environment. More beer culture, if you will. By the 1980s, fitness was 'in' and anti-drugs was 'in' and people were making more health-conscious decisions. People were just more aware of the dangers of poor lifestyle.

Salaries grew from the late-70s and well into the 80s, but started getting really big for top-end players by the latter half of the 1980s. Mark Messier was making 250,000 or something in 1984, and in 1997 was making $6 million for being half the player he'd been before. When you know the salaries are going to set you up for life, there's a hell of a lot more motivation to stay clean, stay in shape, and extend your career by any means possible.

I think you explained well why the guys who succeeded the 1950's born players had better longevity. But when thinking about this question before, mostly in the context of players on the back to back Habs and Isles four in a row dynasties, the mystery to me is why the players who preceded them had good longevity. Howe, Beliveau, and Hull all had good longevity. What made the 1950's born players circumstance so unique that they lacked the longevity of both their immediate predecessors AND successors?

The Panther · Sep 20, 2023

LightningStorm said:
...the mystery to me is why the players who preceded them had good longevity. Howe, Beliveau, and Hull all had good longevity. What made the 1950's born players circumstance so unique that they lacked the longevity of both their immediate predecessors AND successors?

This is indeed a good question.

frisco · Sep 20, 2023

Along the same lines players hit their stride a lot earlier in the 80's than today, relative to their peers.

22 or younger forwards in the top 75 in scoring 1981-82: 19

22 or younger forwards in the top 75 in scoring 2022-23: 2

My Best-Carey

Michael Farkas · Sep 20, 2023

Have you seen this post before, OP? Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 3 (Secret of the Ooze)

I think a lot of it has to do with how poor the NHL was until later in the decade. A lot of one-way players got washed out, rather swiftly, as the talent pool (ding ding ding!) caught up with the amount of roster spots available, etc.

Less players were forced into duty (or permitted to make rosters) as under-developed prospects, thus giving them less chance of a "B" or "C" game to fall back on later in their career...

Aged 20 or under NHLers:
1980-81: 81 skaters
1981-82: 99 skaters
1982-83 80 skaters
1983-84: 94 skaters
1984-85: 83 skaters
1985-86: 75 skaters
1986-87: 61 skaters
1987-88: 63 skaters
1988-89: 63 skaters
1989-90: 50 skaters
1990-91: 40 skaters

I could be less lazy about this...more later...but despite catching maybe the best draft class of all time, the number falls (until we hit expansion, then we'll see a small uptick...as we do). But a 50+% drop in a fairly short amount of time and it jives with what you see on the ice...the league was quite barren in the time between the sponsorship era attritioning out, the absorption of a minor league, roster expansion, a goalie talent pool still reeling from the ice time constraints brought about by backup goalie rules, etc. etc.

daver · Sep 20, 2023

Look no further than the "No Smoking" signs on the benches.

Overrated · Sep 20, 2023

The game was just getting that much better back then. The growth of the talent pool was enormous. Peak Stastny or Dionne would have never made any top5 in PPG had they played in the 90s in any single season. Probably not even top10.

daver · Sep 20, 2023

Overrated said:
The game was just getting that much better back then. The growth of the talent pool was enormous. Peak Stastny or Dionne would have never made any top5 in PPG had they played in the 90s in any single season. Probably not even top10.

I am sure you have done some painstaking work to ensure that there are zero examples of players who were Top 5 PPG players in the '80s that also finished in the Top 10 in the '90s.

BigBadBruins7708 · Sep 20, 2023

Stephen said:
I don’t know if the premise is even factual. A good representative of elite forwards who got their starts in the early to mid 80s were still hanging around the game in the 2000s, on either side of the 2005 lockout give or take a season or two. I’m thinking of players like Lemieux, Yzerman, Oates, Francis, Hull, Gilmour, Messier, Roberts, Andreychuk, Nieuwendyk, all still hanging around, collecting big paycheques well into their late 30s. The league felt very old around 2003-04.

same on defense:

Bourque, Coffey, Stevens, MacInnis, Murphy, Chelios, Housley

MadLuke · Sep 20, 2023

daver said:
Look no further than the "No Smoking" signs on the benches.

Where the stars of 79-80 smoking more than the generations before ?

TheStatican · Sep 20, 2023

Michael Farkas said:
Have you seen this post before, OP? Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 3 (Secret of the Ooze)

I think a lot of it has to do with how poor the NHL was until later in the decade. A lot of one-way players got washed out, rather swiftly, as the talent pool (ding ding ding!) caught up with the amount of roster spots available, etc.

Less players were forced into duty (or permitted to make rosters) as under-developed prospects, thus giving them less chance of a "B" or "C" game to fall back on later in their career...

Aged 20 or under NHLers:
1980-81: 81 skaters
1981-82: 99 skaters
1982-83 80 skaters
1983-84: 94 skaters
1984-85: 83 skaters
1985-86: 75 skaters
1986-87: 61 skaters
1987-88: 63 skaters
1988-89: 63 skaters
1989-90: 50 skaters
1990-91: 40 skaters

I could be less lazy about this...more later...but despite catching maybe the best draft class of all time, the number falls (until we hit expansion, then we'll see a small uptick...as we do). But a 50+% drop in a fairly short amount of time and it jives with what you see on the ice...the league was quite barren in the time between the sponsorship era attritioning out, the absorption of a minor league, roster expansion, a goalie talent pool still reeling from the ice time constraints brought about by backup goalie rules, etc. etc.

Interesting analysis, looks like this has a lot to do with it as well.

MadLuke said:
Where the stars of 79-80 smoking more than the generations before ?

That's what I was wondering too, smoking has been around for a long time after all, maybe usage went up during the 80's but just from doing a quite search online that doesn't seem to be the case. But even if it declined in the general population it could be that the prevalence of smoking still went up within certain cultures like the hockey community.

TheStatican · Sep 20, 2023

On an individual level anyone want to take a stab at filling this list out some more? Either the reason for their early retirement or the early scoring declines.

Player	reason	last high scoring season	retired at
Craig Simpson	back injury	22	27
Dan Quinn	general disinterest	23	31
Jimmy Carson	general disinterest	24	27
Tim Young	?	24	29
Troy Murray	injuries	24	33
Dale McCourt	?	25	27
Morris Lukowich	?	25	30
Stan Smyl	?	25	33
Réal Cloutier	?	26	28
Barry Pederson	injuries	26	30
Mike Bullard	?	26	30
Kirk Muller	?	26	36
Michel Goulet	injury	27	33
Dennis Maruk	?	27	33
Clark Gillies	?	27	33
Brent Sutter	?	27	35
Håkan Loob	went back home to Europe	28	28
Anton Šťastný	went back home to Europe	28	29
Patrik Sundström	?	28	30
Mike Rogers	?	28	31
Rick Vaive	?	28	32
Wilf Paiement	?	28	32
Rick Tocchet	injuries	28	37
Mats Näslund	went back home to Europe	29	30
Blaine Stoughton	?	29	30
Tim Kerr	injuires	29	33
Brian Bellows	?	29	34
Glenn Anderson	?	29	35
Mike Bossy	back injury	30	30
Kent Nilsson	went back home to Europe	30	30
Pat LaFontaine	concussions	30	32
Paul MacLean	?	30	32
Dale Hawerchuk	?	30	33
John Ogrodnick	?	30	33
Bobby Smith	?	30	34
Peter McNab	?	30	34
Denis Savard	?	30	35
Charlie Simmer	injuries	31	33
Steve Larmer	?	31	33
Brian Propp	?	31	34

Note; the age number is the age listed on Hockey Reference for that season i.e. at the start of the season. Not about to go through and check every single players birthday to see if their age changed during the season or in the following summer between seasons. Same thing also applied the the lists in my OP for the other generations, so its an equally applied standard across the board.

Michael Farkas · Sep 20, 2023

Cloutier was a partier/borderline alcoholic, right?

daver · Sep 20, 2023

MadLuke said:
Where the stars of 79-80 smoking more than the generations before ?

I hate having to explain jokes but here goes:

The implication was that you used to be able to smoke on the bench in the "80s. When players couldn't smoke on the bench anymore they quit hockey.

MadLuke · Sep 20, 2023

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Stephen · Sep 20, 2023

BigBadBruins7708 said:
same on defense:

Bourque, Coffey, Stevens, MacInnis, Murphy, Chelios, Housley

Yep. If anything that early 1960s cohort was made up of a lot of elite guys who turned into geriatrics and they just hung on and on collecting paycheques making the league feel so old.

BraveCanadian · Sep 20, 2023

Stephen said:
Yep. If anything that early 1960s cohort was made up of a lot of elite guys who turned into geriatrics and they just hung on and on collecting paycheques making the league feel so old.

It was almost certainly the case that the league took a dip in talent at the end of the 90s into the early 00s which allowed some of those talented but old (for hockey) guys to hang in there instead of being replaced.

Stephen · Sep 20, 2023

BraveCanadian said:
It was almost certainly the case that the league took a dip in talent at the end of the 90s into the early 00s which allowed some of those talented but old (for hockey) guys to hang in there instead of being replaced.

Seems like with the clutch and grab era, emphasis on size and old man strength on the ice and UFA starting at 31 and 32, it was more difficult for those draft picks from the mid 90s to early 2000s to meaningfully gain employment in the NHL... teams had an easier time filling those roster spots and not having to develop. That model shifted significantly in 2005-06.

jigglysquishy · Sep 20, 2023

The guys that really struggled were 1950s born in the mid to late 80s.

Part of it comes to reduction in number of teams. In 1977, there were 18 NHL teams and 12 WHA teams. By 1980 we dropped to only 21 NHL teams. So 9 teams worth of players were out of major pro hockey. Competition just got tighter, especially as the number of Europeans continued to escalate in the 80s.

These guys flushing out in 1985 were all in their mid 20s to mid 30s. It's a rough age for a non superstar to face reduced roster space.

There are what, 300 or 400 guys who played major pro hockey who wouldn't have without the WHA bump?

In 1985-86 Gilbert Perreault was the oldest player to play a full season. He was only 35.

Bobby Orr would have been the oldest player in the league in 1984-85.

The Panther · Sep 20, 2023

TheStatican said:
On an individual level anyone want to take a stab at filling this list out some more? Either the reason for their early retirement or the early decline

Player reason last good season retired at
Craig Simpson back injury 21 27
Dan Quinn ? 23 31
Jimmy Carson general disinterest 24 27
Tim Young ? 24 29
Troy Murray ? 24 33
Dale McCourt ? 25 27
Morris Lukowich ? 25 30
Stan Smyl ? 25 33
Réal Cloutier ? 26 28
Barry Pederson ? 26 30
Mike Bullard ? 26 30
Kirk Muller ? 26 36
Michel Goulet ? 27 33
Dennis Maruk ? 27 33
Clark Gillies ? 27 33
Brent Sutter ? 27 35
Håkan Loob went back home 28 28
Anton Šťastný went back home 28 29
Patrik Sundström ? 28 30
Mike Rogers ? 28 31
Rick Vaive ? 28 32
Wilf Paiement ? 28 32
Rick Tocchet injuries 28 37
Mats Näslund ? 29 30
Blaine Stoughton ? 29 30
Tim Kerr ? 29 33
Brian Bellows ? 29 34
Glenn Anderson ? 29 35
Bernie Nicholls ? 29 37
Mike Bossy back injury 30 30
Kent Nilsson went back home 30 30
Pat LaFontaine concussions 30 32
Paul MacLean ? 30 32
Dale Hawerchuk ? 30 33
John Ogrodnick ? 30 33
Bobby Smith ? 30 34
Peter McNab ? 30 34
Denis Savard ? 30 35
Charlie Simmer injuries 31 33
Steve Larmer ? 31 33
Brian Propp ? 31 34

This list is inaccurate, in parts. When you say "good season", I think what you really mean is "all star season", which is very different. But even then it's not very accurate.

For example:
-- Craig Simpson led the playoffs in scoring and won the Cup at age 23 (you are correct that his career ended due to accumulated back injuries)
-- Mike Bullard still scored 64 points in 70 games, aged 28-29
-- Michel Goulet, 27 goals, 65 points at age 30 (his career ended suddenly due to a brutal on-ice injury)
-- Brent Sutter was very productive up to age 30
-- Rick Tocchet was still very productive up to age 34, when he scored 26 goals and 56 points for Phoenix (in fact, his 4th-best season in "adjusted" points)
-- Mats Naslund declined, suddenly, in 1989-90, but as it was just one season I don't know if it's fair to say he was done as a good player. (He chose to go to Europe at that point.)
-- Tim Kerr was still highly productive up to age 31, but I think injuries did him in. He barely played after he left Philly.
-- Bernie Nicholls was highly productive up to age 34, not 29. He led the Blackhawks in scoring (over Roenick) in 1995, and then had 60 points in 59 games in 1996.

Even Troy Murray seems unfair. He was basically a defensive forward, known more for checking than scoring (despite that one big year with Chicago). As he barely played in 1993 and 1994, I assume injuries did him in, as well. The same can be said for Barry Pederson, who suffered serious leg injuries in Boston in 1984. He could still play (led the Canucks in scoring in 1987), but the general feeling expressed on here many times is that he was never the same.

The most sudden "drop-offs" from your list, I think, are:
-- Dan Quinn -- A party-boy with no defensive game. Probably as the League tightened up and coaches demanded more from him, he wilted, and became a third-liner, happy to cash pay-checks.
-- Kirk Muller -- Never really been able to figure out why Muller declined in offense so suddenly after spring 1993 (when he won the Cup).

I would also add that Réal Cloutier and Blaine Stoughton (and probably Morris Lukowich) are 1970s guys, not 1980s' guys.

jigglysquishy said:
The guys that really struggled were 1950s born in the mid to late 80s.

This is correct. Most of the 1970s' guys who were stars in 1977 / 1979 / 1981 were suddenly completely gone by about 1984-85.

1980's Star Players and their poor longevity

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