1980 NHL Draft

[Jets4Life]

Hypothetically, if you were to list your top 10 picks looking back in retrospect, how would you rank the players? I am debating with a fellow right now about whether picking Dave Babych at #2 overall was a good pick for the Jets. Obviously, Wickenheiser was a bust at #1, and Savard, Coffey, and Murphy proved to have better careers. Rounding out the top ten would be Veitch, Lanz, Arthur, Bullard, and Fox. In a redraft, obviously 4th round selections Kurri and Nicholls would go much higher, but considering how much scouting has improved, I think the Jets did well selecting Babych at #2, as he became one of our best defenseman and an NHL All-Star, and had a distinguished career, playing 19 seasons, with 4 different teams.

My ranking:

1. Paul Coffey
2. Dennis Savard
3. Jari Kurri
4. Larry Murphy
5. Kelly Hrudey
6. Bernie Nicholls
7. Dave Babych
8. Steve Larmer
9. Brent Sutter
10. Andy Moog

 

[The Panther]

1. Paul Coffey
2. Dennis Savard
3. Jari Kurri
4. Larry Murphy
5. Kelly Hrudey
6. Bernie Nicholls
7. Dave Babych
8. Steve Larmer
9. Brent Sutter
10. Andy Moog

I can understand Savard over Kurri, although I personally would reverse those. Bear in mind that Kurri was an all-time clutch playoff performer, and scored 102 points after Gretzky left Edmonton (outscoring Messier, as well). Nothing against Savard, though, who was a uniquely talented puck-carrier and highly entertaining.

Coffey was a difficult player. He was clearly one of the all-time most talented defencemen -- arguably the most talented offensively -- and might be the greatest hockey-skater ever. But he was notoriously difficult to coach, and had great difficulty adapting his style. While I'd agree he was probably the most impactful player of this draft-class, and therefore could be the #1 player to draft, I would only want him on certain kinds of teams with certain kinds of coaches. With Sather and Bowman (both highly demanding and strict, though of differing styles) the results were usually great. But with less imposing coaches, Coffey was often not well-served and indulged his playing style too much, sometimes to the detriment of his team.

But you gotta have Bernie Nicholls over Kelly Hrudey...? In fact, I would also have Moog over Hrudey. And Larmer.

About Dave Babych: I don't mean to sound nasty (knowing you're a Jets fan), but I really disliked him as a player. Yes, he had admirable offensive skills, but that was all he had, as I see it. We'll give him a pass for 1980-81 when he was a rookie on one of the worst teams ever (going -62), but even in his prime he was a very poor defensive player, in my opinion. In 1983-84, Babych went -29, by far the worst on his team. The next year, the Jets had a great season, finishing 4th overall, but Babych went -15, worst on the team but for enforcer Jim Kyte. 1987 Whalers finished 1st in the Adams with 93 points... and again, Babych was a team-worst -17. The next season -25 (second worst on the team, but twice as poor as any other Dman). 1990, second-worst on the team (worst among Dmen by twice, again). 1995 Canucks? Team worst -13.

I realize plus/minus is a stat that has to be interpreted and used with caution, but at some point it's not a coincidence that one guy is frequently the team worst at even-strength. I don't think Babych was generally used as "the shut-down guy" on these teams -- it's not like he was regularly facing the other team's best players all night. Of the ten guys you listed, I would certainly have Babych as the 10th.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

babych might be the most extreme case of a guy who was excellent offensively but a trainwreck in his own end turning into a really steady defensive guy with limited offensive capability.

but i think also, his winnipeg stats probably overstate his offensive ability a little, while his hartford years understate them.

years 2-6, he finished 5th, 3rd, 12th (missed 14 games), 11th, 5th. but it’s hard not to notice that the smythe division was really overrepresented in the defensemen scoring race.

then after he settles in to hartford, he’s in the 20-25 range every year (25, 20, 19, 24). one year, he finished 2nd in team scoring with 50 points... in the late 80s. the most anemic team in the tightest defensive division in the league.

so the real babych, in the offensive half of his career, was probably somewhere in between those two ranges.

i didn’t watch him but by reputation, he was horribad defensively in winnipeg. i have no idea if he improves in hartford but i imagine he must have developed at least a little just based on what you had to do to play in that division, plus getting older.

but babych in vancouver, after an almost career ending injury, was very good defensively. that’s when i started watching him and the way i heard it, after completely destroying his hand, he changed his playing style 180 and focused on the half of his game that didn’t need him to handle the puck. he was our third best defenseman of that era, behind lumme and diduck, and formed an excellent shutdown pair with diduck. he was smart, tough, strong, and had great reach. he also still had the instincts to throw a decent outlet, and at least was definitely the puck mover of his pair, and his heavy point shot (and vancouver’s lack of offensive ability on the backend before we got jeff brown) got him regular second unit power play time.

 

[Fantomas]

Murphy is so underrated. An incredible, long career. At least three seasons that could have gotten him a Norris in a weaker era. 4-time cup winner.

I think he gets no respect because of his time with the Leafs when a lot of their idiots booed him.

He would be my #2.

 

[Neutrinos]

Hypothetically, if you were to list your top 10 picks looking back in retrospect, how would you rank the players? I am debating with a fellow right now about whether picking Dave Babych at #2 overall was a good pick for the Jets. Obviously, Wickenheiser was a bust at #1, and Savard, Coffey, and Murphy proved to have better careers. Rounding out the top ten would be Veitch, Lanz, Arthur, Bullard, and Fox. In a redraft, obviously 4th round selections Kurri and Nicholls would go much higher, but considering how much scouting has improved, I think the Jets did well selecting Babych at #2, as he became one of our best defenseman and an NHL All-Star, and had a distinguished career, playing 19 seasons, with 4 different teams.

My ranking:

1. Paul Coffey
2. Dennis Savard
3. Jari Kurri
4. Larry Murphy
5. Kelly Hrudey
6. Bernie Nicholls
7. Dave Babych
8. Steve Larmer
9. Brent Sutter
10. Andy Moog

I would think both Larmer and Nichols should be ahead of Hrudey

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

for a redraft, i'd go:

1. coffey, because he is the most special player in the draft. i think you always take the unicorn because you can find a superstar center, you can find a 50 goal winger, but only twice in a lifetime will you find a guy who can create the kind of offense that coffey can.

2. savard vs kurri is tough. i go with savard very slightly because even though i think kurri is a superstar wherever he plays, and probably a franchise player almost anywhere other than edmonton, i don't think see him as a guy who strings together 120-130 point seasons and challenges for art rosses in a gretzky/mario-less league.

3. that said, man kurri is hard to pass up at #2. 50 goal/100 point scorer with selke-level defense and the ability to play center. probably every bit the unicorn coffey was, just not quite as high end.

4. barry pederson. this guy kept up with savard and hawerchuk offensively and was the most complete player of the three at an early age, before his big surgery. averaged 106 in his first three seasons (and 51 points in 31 playoff games), then he was never the same player again.

i guess there was no avoiding that tumor, it wasn't a freak accident, but still, what a player. i've heard him compared to sakic in both style and ability.

actually, i kind of think of pederson like trevor linden, insofar as even after he's fallen off a cliff, he still has so much value that you want him around so you can trade him. cam neely and the horrendous canucks' first round pick in the '87 draft... though if they'd taken the canucks' pick in the weaker '86 draft, i'm guessing they would have picked brian leetch given that they took another new englander, craig janney, with their own pick in that draft.

5. larry murphy. i'm not super high on murphy, really, and even though obviously he is one of the greatest PP point men ever, i don't like him as your number one defenseman. but you can't argue with results.

6. steve larmer, 7. brent sutter. i think sutter was the better defensive player but i like larmer because he had higher offensive upside. both great glue guys.

8. craig ludwig. same spot in the draft as his future teammates/proteges richard matvichuk and derian hatcher were taken.

9. hakan loob. he didn't last long, but he was very good when he was here.

10. bernie nicholls. clearly a really high level offensive talent, and he played forever, but i just liked loob more than him. loob just seemed more competitive.

11-13. andy moog, don beaupre, kelly hrudey, probably in that order but i'm not super sure about that. to me, moog was the most dependable and beaupre had the highest ceiling but also lowest floor.

14. dave babych

15. mike bullard. kind of the dave babych of forwards, but without the long career. a gritty player and big offensive talent, but with a reputation for being terrible defensively. a forgotten scorer, equally adept leading a terrible team (50 goals on the pre-mario penguins) and a powerhouse (100 points on the '88 flames). bonus points for being brett hull's first center, with john tonelli on the LW-- now there's three guys you forgot were ever flames.

16-18. normand rochefort, steve kasper, troy murray, in any order really. all great role players you'd love to have on your team. savard, larmer, and murray is quite a nice draft for the blackhawks.

19. patrick sundstrom

20. craig muni. but a part of me liked the other member of edmonton's 1987 d-corps retool, reijo ruotsalainen, here, but from what i understand if you think babych was bad in his own end, reijo is a whole other adventure. if he had loob's well-roundedness, then i might overlook his short NHL career.