GDT: 12/12/24 - 9:00PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Calgary

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
17,333
9,854
Tampa Bay
Injuries always leave a sour after taste even with a delicious main course like tonight.

For those saying we need to fix the D and not offense, I don’t think that we can. Our top 4 is locked in, we need them to play better. Our bottom pairing is our bottom pairing
 
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Maelmoor

Registered User
Apr 20, 2004
6,556
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Stockholm, Sweden
Injuries always leave a sour after taste even with a delicious main course like tonight.

For those saying we need to fix the D and not offense, I don’t think that we can. Our top 4 is locked in, we need them to play better. Our bottom pairing is our bottom pairing
Though to be fair, I think improving the bottom pairing is a realistic target. We've done so quite a few times in the past, where we brought in a steady d that helped us out, especially in the playoffs.
 
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Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
17,333
9,854
Tampa Bay
Though to be fair, I think improving the bottom pairing is a realistic target. We've done so quite a few times in the past, where we brought in a steady d that helped us out, especially in the playoffs.

In recent memory I can only think of a few trades.

Savard was not cheap and played pretty crappy most of the time.

Coburn was a nice pick up, but we also needed a top 4 desperately.

Brewer came in and it paid immediate dividends, but that team was also desperate for a top 4 guy.

At the end of the day Cernak and McDonagh just have to play better IMO unless we are replacing one of them.
 

These Are The Days

I need about tree fiddy
May 17, 2014
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Tampa Bay
Injuries always leave a sour after taste even with a delicious main course like tonight.

For those saying we need to fix the D and not offense, I don’t think that we can. Our top 4 is locked in, we need them to play better. Our bottom pairing is our bottom pairing
Well how much more investment does the defense need? This is not even a rhetorical question. We've sacrificed a near entire forward lineup in the last 2 to 4 years just to have 2 to 4 capable defenders on a given night. Not that Palat, Stamkos, Killorn, Colton, Johnson, the entire Gourde line and the school bus are all killing it right now. It's more like at some point you need to make it work with what you have. But injuries have gotten in the way of that. Once our guys get healthy I just want us to run with who we have. Doing something like sending Paul off because it means getting someone better than Lily and Raddysh isn't gonna make us better
 

LordStanlersCup

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Sep 6, 2024
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Well how much more investment does the defense need? This is not even a rhetorical question. We've sacrificed a near entire forward lineup in the last 2 to 4 years just to have 2 to 4 capable defenders on a given night. Not that Palat, Stamkos, Killorn, Colton, Johnson, the entire Gourde line and the school bus are all killing it right now. It's more like at some point you need to make it work with what you have. But injuries have gotten in the way of that. Once our guys get healthy I just want us to run with who we have. Doing something like sending Paul off because it means getting someone better than Lily and Raddysh isn't gonna make us better
Something needs to be done because we are tied for 1st in GF per game while being 13th in GA per game. Adding forward depth will help that but that bottom pairing really needs help. We also have the assets to add good players without touching the roster. A solid bottom pairing that can take minutes away from McDonagh/Cernak could also help that pair be more effective. In terms of adding on F vs D, I don't think its an either/or, I think its a both
 

These Are The Days

I need about tree fiddy
May 17, 2014
35,811
21,720
Tampa Bay
Something needs to be done because we are tied for 1st in GF per game while being 13th in GA per game. Adding forward depth will help that but that bottom pairing really needs help. We also have the assets to add good players without touching the roster. A solid bottom pairing that can take minutes away from McDonagh/Cernak could also help that pair be more effective. In terms of adding on F vs D, I don't think its an either/or, I think its a both
Well as I said. Injuries. Last year we would start games fast, get up 2-0 and spend 2 periods defending like it was the last 5 minutes of the game. Not that we aren't sort of doing that now. But our forwards are so much more competent at 5 on 5 that it's potentially alleviating the headaches on defense. We just need the defense available and healthy.

If anything I would target a quality backup and rest Vasy more often. Not many goalies can say they're a HOFer by 30 and I can see the toll it has taken on him. His bad games are fatigue driven and I am not gonna fault him for being human. Frustrated yes. But this shit is hard and I have my sympathy despite my frustration with him on some nights
 
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Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
17,333
9,854
Tampa Bay
Something needs to be done because we are tied for 1st in GF per game while being 13th in GA per game. Adding forward depth will help that but that bottom pairing really needs help. We also have the assets to add good players without touching the roster. A solid bottom pairing that can take minutes away from McDonagh/Cernak could also help that pair be more effective. In terms of adding on F vs D, I don't think its an either/or, I think its a both


I recently calculated that we were top 5 in GA when you factor out JJ, but that might have changed now. I mean bottom line is we aren't like bottom 5 where we absolutely have to look for answers.


It's just incredibly difficult and inefficient to find a trade partner for an upgrade on Lily/Raddysh/Perbix just to be a bottom 6 defenseman.
 

LordStanlersCup

Registered User
Sep 6, 2024
164
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Well as I said. Injuries. Last year we would start games fast, get up 2-0 and spend 2 periods defending like it was the last 5 minutes of the game. Not that we aren't sort of doing that now. But our forwards are so much more competent at 5 on 5 that it's potentially alleviating the headaches on defense. We just need the defense available and healthy.

If anything I would target a quality backup and rest Vasy more often. Not many goalies can say they're a HOFer by 30 and I can see the toll it has taken on him. His bad games are fatigue driven and I am not gonna fault him for being human. Frustrated yes. But this shit is hard and I have my sympathy despite my frustration with him on some nights
Our defense has really only been injured the past few games though, before that there was a 25 game sample size where they largely weren't. I agree on the backup goalie although I would want to try Halverson first
 

LordStanlersCup

Registered User
Sep 6, 2024
164
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I recently calculated that we were top 5 in GA when you factor out JJ, but that might have changed now. I mean bottom line is we aren't like bottom 5 where we absolutely have to look for answers.


It's just incredibly difficult and inefficient to find a trade partner for an upgrade on Lily/Raddysh/Perbix just to be a bottom 6 defenseman.
When you were factoring out JJ did you replace his numbers with the GA of what someone in his position would normally allow or take out his GA completely? I actually thought JJ was doing really well. I know 13th isn't terrible but if this team wants to improve there is slim margins on offense, our top 6 is dominating.

We could have a 3rd pair that plays more minutes than a usual 3rd pair and in case of injuries it would be nice to have another top 4 guy.

edit: Did you mean JJ moser or Johansson?
 

Hockeyville USA

Registered User
Dec 30, 2023
4,104
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Central Ohio
Well how much more investment does the defense need? This is not even a rhetorical question. We've sacrificed a near entire forward lineup in the last 2 to 4 years just to have 2 to 4 capable defenders on a given night. Not that Palat, Stamkos, Killorn, Colton, Johnson, the entire Gourde line and the school bus are all killing it right now. It's more like at some point you need to make it work with what you have. But injuries have gotten in the way of that. Once our guys get healthy I just want us to run with who we have. Doing something like sending Paul off because it means getting someone better than Lily and Raddysh isn't gonna make us better
And this is why it's unfortunate that we haven't drafted better, especially on defense. Maybe Crozier can become something. Wish we had held onto Thompson.
 

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
17,333
9,854
Tampa Bay
When you were factoring out JJ did you replace his numbers with the GA of what someone in his position would normally allow or take out his GA completely? I actually thought JJ was doing really well. I know 13th isn't terrible but if this team wants to improve there is slim margins on offense, our top 6 is dominating.

We could have a 3rd pair that plays more minutes than a usual 3rd pair and in case of injuries it would be nice to have another top 4 guy.

edit: Did you mean JJ moser or Johansson?

Joahnasson.

I adjusted the GA/GF. His last game helped his stats quite a bit though.

Do you have anyone in mind we should grab that could replace one of our bottom guys?
 

LordStanlersCup

Registered User
Sep 6, 2024
164
97
Joahnasson.

I adjusted the GA/GF. His last game helped his stats quite a bit though.

Do you have anyone in mind we should grab that could replace one of our bottom guys?
Oh ok nvm I thought you meant moser, we definitely need a backup G.

It kind of depends on if this teams wants rentals/older players or building for the future with the cap going up. For forwards I would want to try Duke and Huuhty first because they have been doing well in an offensively challenged Crunch team. If they wanted long term pieces I would look at Quinn, Peterka, Hayton, Maccelli, Kartye, Kakko, Chytil, Brazeau, Geekie, DOC. If they are looking at older players then ROR, Gourde, Palmieri, Hathaway, B. Tanev. Some of these players aren't really bottom 6 but would push another player into the bottom 6 and balance things out. For Defense I would want Pettersson and then its kind of a big drop off but would still take Oleksiak, Fabbro, Walman, Kesselring, Casey or even Mike Reilly.
 
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Hockeyville USA

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Oh ok nvm I thought you meant moser, we definitely need a backup G.

It kind of depends on if this teams wants rentals/older players or building for the future with the cap going up. For forwards I would want to try Duke and Huuhty first because they have been doing well in an offensively challenged Crunch team. If they wanted long term pieces I would look at Quinn, Peterka, Hayton, Maccelli, Kartye, Kakko, Chytil, Brazeau, Geekie, DOC. If they are looking at older players then ROR, Gourde, Palmieri, Hathaway, B. Tanev. Some of these players aren't really bottom 6 but would push another player into the bottom 6 and balance things out. For Defense I would want Pettersson and then its kind of a big drop off but would still take Oleksiak, Fabbro, Walman, Kesselring, Casey or even Mike Reilly.
The Devils aren't trading Casey. but it'll be interesting how they balance Hamilton, Pesce, Kovacevic, Nemec & Casey
 

LordStanlersCup

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Sep 6, 2024
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The Devils aren't trading Casey. but it'll be interesting how they balance Hamilton, Pesce, Kovacevic, Nemec & Casey
I mean they have to move on from at least one of those guys, maybe 2. And then Silayev will be coming up too and they will have 4 on the left too so it's not even like they need an extra RD to be a good 7th.
 

Hockeyville USA

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I mean they have to move on from at least one of those guys, maybe 2. And then Silayev will be coming up too and they will have 4 on the left too so it's not even like they need an extra RD to be a good 7th.
I would guess they move Kovacevic, who I'd definitely be interested in. Wasn't horrible in Montreal, been solid for New Jersey this year
 
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DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
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NB
I recently calculated that we were top 5 in GA when you factor out JJ, but that might have changed now. I mean bottom line is we aren't like bottom 5 where we absolutely have to look for answers.


It's just incredibly difficult and inefficient to find a trade partner for an upgrade on Lily/Raddysh/Perbix just to be a bottom 6 defenseman.
I think we have to see what's available at the TDL. We look like we are going to make the playoffs without too much discomfort. No need to address a problem that still has time to work itself out. And better bargains will present themselves as other teams accept their fate and sell off.
 

Sky04

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
29,733
19,073
Exactly what @Rschmitz said, the top 4 simply need to be better, we don't have a defensive issue big enough to warranting "trade, trade, trade" talks and you guys blow everything out of proportion crying about the 4th line and bottom pairing.

Our top-4 is set, trading for a bottom pairing defenseman who's going to take time to adjust and hope for what? A marginally better performance if even? Bottom pairing guys are just that, they all have issues one way or another and trading for a top-4 guy to play him in the bottom pairing is just dumb with the minimal assets we have already.

The only guy I'd take a chance on is maybe Luke Schenn because he's familiar with the team already other then that I'd just continue to roll with Lilleberg, Raddysh, and Perbix and just let them work out their kinks. Perbix and Raddysh have both been able to keep up in a playoff series and not look lost.
 
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