OT: 119th Obsequious Banter Thread: April Foods Day

[Lord Defect]

Oh yeah, I understand the reaction completely. The only thing I can say is that as someone who did have to deal with these kinds of issues on a completely different vector, I'm not surprised.

This public face may be for competent or incompetent reasons. We'll likely never have the information to make that determination. Things like the weather balloon and the Merck collateral damage cyberattack are the exceptions to the rules.

We all know that I’ve never been one to be a conspiracy theorist, nor jump to conclusion, but after the colossal display of ineptitude handling the Chinese spy balloon that for the time being that is not an exception to the rule but the rule itself until proven otherwise.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Im assuming any company that has these devices would be forthright in coming forward that they are using this when the News Media, FBI, Federal, State and Local authorities are having discussions about it and trying to figure out what it is. Incursions over sensitive sights and nuclear facilities. Otherwise when you get tracked down your talking about massive fines and shutting you down.

It would have to be some foreign adversary, or group of individuals acting alone on this

Never underestimate the power of being oblivious! Or the human capacity for communication failure. If it is illicit, then it would be effortless to track and shut down, fortunately. Like shining lasers at planes.

Foreign spies who have used drones have tended towards smaller drones. The goal is to try and not be noticed, after all.

Larger drones as described have a ton of uses, including spraying vegetation and insects, inspecting facilities, just a load of stuff. I think it's going a bit far to leap straight to "malignant"

 

[Beef Invictus]

We all know that I’ve never been one to be a conspiracy theorist, nor jump to conclusion, but after the colossal display of ineptitude handling the Chinese spy balloon that for the time being that is not an exception to the rule but the rule itself until proven otherwise.

How was it inept? We'd known about them going back to the prior administration and they were deemed pretty worthless. The only reason they became a supposed threat was due to outcry from a public I trust a lot less than our intelligence experts. I'm skeptical they have ever been worth the cost of missiles used to down them. They aren't even that great as a training target, being huge and slow.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

We all know that I’ve never been one to be a conspiracy theorist, nor jump to conclusion, but after the colossal display of ineptitude handling the Chinese spy balloon that for the time being that is not an exception to the rule but the rule itself until proven otherwise.

Knowing what you don't know is one of the most important skills in life to me. I can't convince you or anyone else specifically because I also have no f***ing idea. I'm going to choose to not lose sight of that whenever possible. It has served me quite well.

 

[Striiker]

If at some point someone kills me can they at least not be named f***ing Luigi.

That would be the worst part by far.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The drones don’t have to be anything. I admit I’m overly sensitive to it because of how hard I had to have people work to do meaningful attribution in a field where everyone cried foreign agent hacks at the drop of a hat. I’ve directed response for incidents that turned out to be the Chinese or North Koreans or Iranians or Israelis. I’ve also handled plenty that just turned out to be a script kiddie. In most cases, even we didn’t know at first which of those it was and that’s with unfettered access to robust internal logging. Oftentimes, attribution was a concept not even worth attempting because of how difficult it was.

Neither me nor anyone reading this has the necessary information to know what’s going on. Either you leave it at that or you’re guessing. Guessing is fine, as long as we all understand that’s what we’re doing.

Everyone always assumes the absolute worst of everything, and it rarely is (or we would be living in a hellish version of GTA). My favorite example of this was more than one person frantically calling a Federal police force to report a man with a rocket launcher heading to the Potomac to definitely shoot down planes coming out of Reagan. Police scrambled at full blast (and to some degree of unsafety to the public) to the scene to track down this terrorist.

They had a fishing rod in a tubular case. They were going to the river to fish.


Yes, you still have to respond to these things as if they're the real deal because once you stop the complacency opens a clear vulnerability to exploit. There are just so many more things that drones can be that aren't foreign spies scoping out obsolete techs. Hell, I can see it being some college engineering students finishing their semester project without a care in the world for airspace regulations or the notion that they really ought to cover their asses by tethering their Thingy.

And one more thing, drones are actually pretty shitty at espionage. The Chinese have tried to use them to monitor naval movements in Japan and the only useful information they've gleaned is that it's a horrible idea to do a very unsubtle and noticeable thing, and then have the machine doing The Thing fly right to you. It's like trying to use flash photography to be subtle. If I were ever blackmailed into spying, drones are extremely low on my list of preferred tools.

 

[Cody Webster]

Hopefully we have enough foil for this one

 

[Lord Defect]

Never underestimate the power of being oblivious! Or the human capacity for communication failure. If it is illicit, then it would be effortless to track and shut down, fortunately. Like shining lasers at planes.

Foreign spies who have used drones have tended towards smaller drones. The goal is to try and not be noticed, after all.

Larger drones as described have a ton of uses, including spraying vegetation and insects, inspecting facilities, just a load of stuff. I think it's going a bit far to leap straight to "malignant"

I’m not saying it’s malicious for sure I’m saying having a spy balloon disguised as a weather balloon cross the continental United States, passing over multiple military installations and other sensitive areas while not following air patterns, and no one stateside claiming it belongs to any of them, makes malicious intent jump towards the front of the suspicion line.
I know there’s a lot of behind the scenes things we are not privy to and truly horrific things are stopped at various stages of their design that we’ll never hear of, but the lack of action or dialogue just screams a repeat of the balloon event.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I have no f***ing clue

OK, found the Spy. Stop flying the drones dude, you're startling the natives.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Everyone always assumes the absolute worst of everything, and it rarely is (or we would be living in a hellish version of GTA). My favorite example of this was more than one person frantically calling a Federal police force to report a man with a rocket launcher heading to the Potomac to definitely shoot down planes coming out of Reagan. Police scrambled at full blast (and to some degree of unsafety to the public) to the scene to track down this terrorist.

They had a fishing rod in a tubular case. They were going to the river to fish.


Yes, you still have to respond to these things as if they're the real deal because once you stop the complacency opens a clear vulnerability to exploit. There are just so many more things that drones can be that aren't foreign spies scoping out obsolete techs. Hell, I can see it being some college engineering students finishing their semester project without a care in the world for airspace regulations or the notion that they really ought to cover their asses by tethering their Thingy.

And one more thing, drones are actually pretty shitty at espionage. The Chinese have tried to use them to monitor naval movements in Japan and the only useful information they've gleaned is that it's a horrible idea to do a very unsubtle and noticeable thing, and then have the machine doing The Thing fly right to you. It's like trying to use flash photography to be subtle. If I were ever blackmailed into spying, drones are extremely low on my list of preferred tools.

I swear on my life this is not a political post.

The best thing I think any American can do is spend some serious time out of the country. The American culture isn't blue jeans and rock and roll or fast food. It's fear. You don't have to live like this.

 

[Lord Defect]

How was it inept? We'd known about them going back to the prior administration and they were deemed pretty worthless. The only reason they became a supposed threat was due to outcry from a public I trust a lot less than our intelligence experts. I'm skeptical they have ever been worth the cost of missiles used to down them. They aren't even that great as a training target, being huge and slow.

It’s inept to allow a foreign nation unfettered access to attempt to spy on us. Even if they knew they would not gain anything of value, that still gives something of value. Removing or blocking the attempt leaves the question of viability Of the method.

Knowing what you don't know is one of the most important skills in life to me. I can't convince you or anyone else specifically because I also have no f***ing idea. I'm going to choose to not lose sight of that whenever possible. It has served me quite well.

We do get that I’m not saying it’s malicious right? Only that the benefit of the doubt is gone now.

If at some point someone kills me can they at least not be named f***ing Luigi.

That would be the worst part by far.

At least be a Mario

 

[Beef Invictus]

I’m not saying it’s malicious for sure I’m saying having a spy balloon disguised as a weather balloon cross the continental United States, passing over multiple military installations and other sensitive areas while not following air patterns, and no one stateside claiming it belongs to any of them, makes malicious intent jump towards the front of the suspicion line.
I know there’s a lot of behind the scenes things we are not privy to and truly horrific things are stopped at various stages of their design that we’ll never hear of, but the lack of action or dialogue just screams a repeat of the balloon event.

But the balloon event wasn't incompetence. We knew what they were for a long time, and we didn't care because they weren't worth anything.

If I had to guess at why China was trying to take the same photos their satellites already do better, and intercept the online poker and OnlyFans traffic of US military peons, it's because someone had an idea to make them look like they were doing something important while draining money into various corrupt pockets. They have possibly hijacked some poor teenagers phones and made them into an on-the-ground mics at numerous military facilities after they messaged the grossest Hentai they could find, which I'd be way more worried about than the balloons, which were purely media ragebait to make people mad. China is incredibly corrupt, to the point where the safe answer to "why are they bothering with this dumb thing? Why has this dumb thing happened" is that someone is profiting off it. Like fueling their ICBMs with water. Or using easily jammable and limited balloons to do meaningful recon in the 145 millionth year after the Jurassic Period.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It’s inept to allow a foreign nation unfettered access to attempt to spy on us. Even if they knew they would not gain anything of value, that still gives something of value. Removing or blocking the attempt leaves the question of viability Of the method.


We do get that I’m not saying it’s malicious right? Only that the benefit of the doubt is gone now.


At least be a Mario

But they didn't have unfettered access. Their access was extremely fettered. They gain more meaningful intel (by miles) from every embassy and consulate. The Pentagon revealed they'd been jamming these things so they couldn't transmit home.

This is a weird thing to give up benefit of the doubt on. The balloons are a manufactured controversy. Barely more outrageous than our Telegram lines being tapped.

 

[Lord Defect]

I’m not saying it’s malicious for sure I’m saying having a spy balloon disguised as a weather balloon cross the continental United States, passing over multiple military installations and other sensitive areas while not following air patterns, and no one stateside claiming it belongs to any of them, makes malicious intent jump towards the front of the suspicion line.
I know there’s a lot of behind the scenes things we are not privy to and truly horrific things are stopped at various stages of their design that we’ll never hear of, but the lack of action or dialogue just screams a repeat of the balloon event.

If you know that there’s no repercussion that you fear and your only goal is to take a picture, flash photography might not be the best, but still get the job done.

It also could be a means just to gauge a response for other knowledge

 

[Striiker]

At least be a Mario

No. No stupid Italian names.

No Italians, period.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I swear on my life this is not a political post.

The best thing I think any American can do is spend some serious time out of the country. The American culture isn't blue jeans and rock and roll or fast food. It's fear. You don't have to live like this.

Yeah. This is just a comment in general on American society. I've spent the last year trying to calm outrageous and baseless fears from people I know on both sides of the political spectrum but people largely don't want to hear it. They got off on the anger and rage.

It's weirdly self abusive. Unlike the fully normal self-abuse of sports fandom.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

No. No stupid Italian names.

No Italians, period.

 

[Lord Defect]

But the balloon event wasn't incompetence. We knew what they were for a long time, and we didn't care because they weren't worth anything.

If I had to guess at why China was trying to take the same photos their satellites already do better, and intercept the online poker and OnlyFans traffic of US military peons, it's because someone had an idea to make them look like they were doing something important while draining money into various corrupt pockets. They have possibly hijacked some poor teenagers phones and made them into an on-the-ground mics at numerous military facilities after they messaged the grossest Hentai they could find, which I'd be way more worried about than the balloons, which were purely media ragebait to make people mad. China is incredibly corrupt, to the point where the safe answer to "why are they bothering with this dumb thing? Why has this dumb thing happened" is that someone is profiting off it. Like fueling their ICBMs with water. Or using easily jammable and limited balloons to do meaningful recon in the 145 millionth year after the Jurassic Period.

Let’s move onto a real threat to society.
Infant clothing. The sizing method is purposely all over the place to force consumers to spend more time consuming.
My daughter’s wearing 3m pants and she’s definitely older, and she’s swimming in them. These could be 12 month pants.

 

[Striiker]

 

[JojoTheWhale]

No. No stupid Italian names.

No Italians, period.

*wop hand gestures*

(Let's see if I get yelled at again.)

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

*wop hand gestures*

(Let's see if I get yelled at again.)

 

[Beef Invictus]

If you know that there’s no repercussion that you fear and your only goal is to take a picture, flash photography might not be the best, but still get the job done.

It also could be a means just to gauge a response for other knowledge

Nobody using flash photography for secret spywork is remaining a secret spy for long. Same for drones. I spend up to 16 hours a day (8 for work, 8 for gossip because people do be doing the wild shit) listening to various police agencies in my area. There are a LOT of restricted air spaces here, to the point where having a drone hobby is useless if you aren't an easy drive to the outskirts. I have heard a lot of drones getting tracked straight back to their pilot, sometimes before they even head back to their pilot.

Drones are such a terrible espionage tool that I am loathe to even consider that option for these repeated drone flights. Sure, it's an option. But it's an option that gets you caught rapidly, especially if you are gambling repeated flights. If this is spywork, it's very stupid spywork that will get the spy burned and imprisoned all for information that can be gotten off Google.

The joke is that James Bond is the worst secret agent ever because everyone knows who he is. Every drone pilot trying repeatedly to be sneaky is a much less capable James Bond that will inevitably be caught.


On a semi-related tangent, there is presently much wailing that Ukraine/Russia are showing that drones rule the battlefield now. This is a faulty conclusion. They're barely out of WWI in that war because nobody controls the air, so that is a unique situation where drones can shine. The US has F-35s that can detect drone control signals to their source, so anyone trying to rain hell on US forces with F-35s in the air is going to eat a lot of high velocity metal.

There's a lowgrade drone scare going on right now and I do not think it is the drones we need to worry about.

 

[Lord Defect]

But they didn't have unfettered access. Their access was extremely fettered. They gain more meaningful intel (by miles) from every embassy and consulate. The Pentagon revealed they'd been jamming these things so they couldn't transmit home.

This is a weird thing to give up benefit of the doubt on. The balloons are a manufactured controversy. Barely more outrageous than our Telegram lines being tapped.

General Glen VanHerck, NORAD’s commander, admitted that the balloons exposed a “gap” in American air defenses. “I will tell you that we did not detect those threats,” he said.

Why U.S. Air Defenses Failed to Spot Chinese Spy Balloons

NORAD allowed at least four other Chinese balloons to cross into U.S. territory undetected. Here's why.

time.com

Why announce that they found a way into our house then? Why not publically mock them or politely downplay the severity or lack-thereof to ease the public’s mind?

 

[ajgoal]

*wop hand gestures*

(Let's see if I get yelled at again.)

That was the most ridiculous thing I've seen here this year.

 

[Lord Defect]

Nobody using flash photography for secret spywork is remaining a secret spy for long. Same for drones. I spend up to 16 hours a day (8 for work, 8 for gossip because people do be doing the wild shit) listening to various police agencies in my area. There are a LOT of restricted air spaces here, to the point where having a drone hobby is useless if you aren't an easy drive to the outskirts. I have heard a lot of drones getting tracked straight back to their pilot, sometimes before they even head back to their pilot.

Drones are such a terrible espionage tool that I am loathe to even consider that option for these repeated drone flights. Sure, it's an option. But it's an option that gets you caught rapidly, especially if you are gambling repeated flights. If this is spywork, it's very stupid spywork that will get the spy burned and imprisoned all for information that can be gotten off Google.

The joke is that James Bond is the worst secret agent ever because everyone knows who he is. Every drone pilot trying repeatedly to be sneaky is a much less capable James Bond that will inevitably be caught.


On a semi-related tangent, there is presently much wailing that Ukraine/Russia are showing that drones rule the battlefield now. This is a faulty conclusion. They're barely out of WWI in that war because nobody controls the air, so that is a unique situation where drones can shine. The US has F-35s that can detect drone control signals to their source, so anyone trying to rain hell on US forces with F-35s in the air is going to eat a lot of high velocity metal.

There's a lowgrade drone scare going on right now and I do not think it is the drones we need to worry about.

This is why I think they should announce something in regards to the Jersey drones. It’s not hard to say that there’s been an investigation and no nefarious deeds are being done.