GDT: 11/30/24 - 7:00PM EDT - Toronto vs Tampa Bay

[These Are The Days]

Coop has proven capable for a decade. I'm not saying he's bulletproof but who are we gonna get that's better? His buddies who haven't hatched a new idea in 3 years need to go and then we see what happens from there. The league has us figured out. Coop is at least good at figuring out the big picture and doesn't burn out locker rooms. He has succeeded with like 3 different stuffs already. I don't see why that would suddenly change.


Oh yeah and our talent is really, really meh. It's worse than our coaching is

 

[Stammertime91]

I'm not sure how Mike Sullivan is relevant. Pittsburgh could have missed the playoffs the past two seasons just as easily without him and hasn't been past the first round in six years. That's where we're headed and that's my point, I don't care how great the coach may have been (Coop has a great record of success, as does Sullivan. Both of them have had generational talent to work with. Multiple HOFs. they should have succeeded) there comes a time when trying something else makes perfect sense. And Berube is not some outlier, Knoblach just last year was an in season change and EDM went to the finals. If there is a good lineup to work with it is as likely to work as not. I don't get the unflinching allegience. You still want Stammer and his -41 overr the past 100 games too?

I brought up Sullivan because coaches that win land jobs with relative ease or they don't get fired because there's enough faith in them to get the job done. Cooper is the leading candidate in the league for this conversation. I mentioned Sullivan because he's an example that is near the end of that shelf life and the pens haven't been relevant since 2017. I don't buy the generational talent argument. Teams load up and have been stacked yet never win. And teams with multiple HOFers. Kind of a moot point.

Yes, Berube is an outlier. Coaches brought in mid-season do not win the SC frequently. That is an outlier. Knoblach went to the final after teams in the west sputtered out. Good team, but the west was in shambles. Even then, thats two cases since 2019, one of which didn't win. Yes, great point.

As for the Stamkos comment, I never mentioned him so it seems like you've run out of points to make on this topic. :shrugs:

 

[Stammertime91]

the problem is that the core is getting older. Kucherov probably won't even re-sign. He's very competitive and won't waste his time on a mediocre team. The defensemen can barely move their legs anymore. so what's the point in thinking about 2027.There's nothing to indicate that Cooper can make something competitive out of this roster.

Your last sentence is why it doesn't make sense to fire Cooper. JBB is more of an issue than Cooper if we're splitting hairs. Giving Cooper a bottom six of Atkinson, Sheary, Chaffee, Eyssimont, Glendening, Goncalves, Girgensons, Paul and Geekie is like putting different types of paper in the fire, it's all gonna burn. These guys aren't compatible. Paul is great and not an issue by any means, but he has no chemistry with these guys. Geekie is a bright spot and gets a pass. As much as we like Ace and hope for Chaffee to take off, these guys are inferior to what we've iced in the past. Not to mention, they aren't as physical. There's no intimidation, no leadership. It's a dead weight conglomerate group of tweeners and redundant, one dimensional pieces.

It's a personnel issue and was last year, too. We have an absolutely horrendous bottom six.

 

[gn2007]

Overall we were playing a back to back while toronto wasn't, vasy looked shaken in the 2nd but with some dumb plays by our players. Had life in the 3rd but got to play a full 60 to win games.

 

[These Are The Days]

I brought up Sullivan because coaches that win land jobs with relative ease or they don't get fired because there's enough faith in them to get the job done. Cooper is the leading candidate in the league for this conversation. I mentioned Sullivan because he's an example that is near the end of that shelf life and the pens haven't been relevant since 2017. I don't buy the generational talent argument. Teams load up and have been stacked yet never win. And teams with multiple HOFers. Kind of a moot point.

Yes, Berube is an outlier. Coaches brought in mid-season do not win the SC frequently. That is an outlier. Knoblach went to the final after teams in the west sputtered out. Good team, but the west was in shambles. Even then, thats two cases since 2019, one of which didn't win. Yes, great point.

As for the Stamkos comment, I never mentioned him so it seems like you've run out of points to make on this topic. :shrugs:

The Penguins have been a heaping pile of trash for years and the fact they still have somehow remained competitive is a testament to their coaching. The Hextall years burned that team to the ground after Rutherford had effectively dismantled what he had built. This is the same lot that has cried for Mike Tomlin to be banished to the void because he wasn't winning playoff games with the corpse of Ben Roethlisberger.

Sullivan deserves a freaking statue for the team holding on for this long. They suuuuccckkkkkk

 

[Soul Assumption]

Your last sentence is why it doesn't make sense to fire Cooper. JBB is more of an issue than Cooper if we're splitting hairs. Giving Cooper a bottom six of Atkinson, Sheary, Chaffee, Eyssimont, Glendening, Goncalves, Girgensons, Paul and Geekie is like putting different types of paper in the fire, it's all gonna burn. These guys aren't compatible. Paul is great and not an issue by any means, but he has no chemistry with these guys. Geekie is a bright spot and gets a pass. As much as we like Ace and hope for Chaffee to take off, these guys are inferior to what we've iced in the past. Not to mention, they aren't as physical. There's no intimidation, no leadership. It's a dead weight conglomerate group of tweeners and redundant, one dimensional pieces.

It's a personnel issue and was last year, too. We have an absolutely horrendous bottom six.

First of all i would fire JBB too. and yes this roster has holes but i believe even this roster is capable of more than just a wild card/first round exit. It's not Brisebois fault that they've been playing the same defensive "structure" for 3 years and it's not his fault that the coaching staff needs 1/4 of the season to try Point in the left circle on the power play.

 

[Rschmitz]

I think JBB has built a phenomenal team and Cooper has these guys competing hard. I am very happy with this group even if we aren’t blowing away everyone in the standings.

Ace playing well has me excited to see what happens when we finally get everyone healthy.

 

[Hoek]

If a new coach can make Vasi elite again then let's do it. Other than that, I dunno man...

 

[Soul Assumption]

You just can't say we suck because of the roster. Minnesota or Washington have a good roster in your opinion? like a top 1 conference roster? Obviously they overachieved. I can say the same about Winnipeg. by the way, what do these teams have in common? they all changed coaches recently.

If a new coach can make Vasi elite again then let's do it. Other than that, I dunno man...

Maybe the new coach can change the defensive scheme and they will stop collapsing in front of his net giving so much time and space to the players at the point.

 

[Bartleby]

I brought up Sullivan because coaches that win land jobs with relative ease or they don't get fired because there's enough faith in them to get the job done. Cooper is the leading candidate in the league for this conversation. I mentioned Sullivan because he's an example that is near the end of that shelf life and the pens haven't been relevant since 2017. I don't buy the generational talent argument. Teams load up and have been stacked yet never win. And teams with multiple HOFers. Kind of a moot point.

Yes, Berube is an outlier. Coaches brought in mid-season do not win the SC frequently. That is an outlier. Knoblach went to the final after teams in the west sputtered out. Good team, but the west was in shambles. Even then, thats two cases since 2019, one of which didn't win. Yes, great point.

As for the Stamkos comment, I never mentioned him so it seems like you've run out of points to make on this topic. :shrugs:

Going to the finals is a fail in a 32 team league in your mind? Right, got it. I think most people would take that relative to the one and done that has become our norm, that is if we get there at all this year. The bottom line is that this is a grossly inconsistent team on a bad trajectory and you just want to stay the course. I don't, and I don't know why anyone would.

 

[Bartleby]

I think JBB has built a phenomenal team and Cooper has these guys competing hard. I am very happy with this group even if we aren’t blowing away everyone in the standings.

Ace playing well has me excited to see what happens when we finally get everyone healthy.

This is the NHL and pretty much after the first game of the season getting everyone healthy never happens. It is a war of attrition.

 

[DFC]

Can we please stop melting down every time we lose? It's a tough division. We aren't likely to win it.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Can we please stop melting down every time we lose? It's a tough division. We aren't likely to win it.

Haha this sub melts down all game long.

 

[Maelmoor]

It's all about getting into the playoffs now, there we might not be favourites, but looking around the league and I feel confident we can beat anyone

 

[Powerplay17]

The 32 thoughts podcast had interesting segment regarding the cap and the real possibility of a very large jump. If that comes true, perhaps an infusion of talent can change the obvious trajectory of this team. Must get younger defensively and upgrade the bottom 6 but that still doesn’t address the goalie problem.

 

[DFC]

Yeah, we are in a pretty good position if the cap goes up, because most of our top players won't be getting raises on their next contract even with a higher cap. So we will be able to add to what we have.

 

[Soul Assumption]

We still don't have assets, which means cap space can only be spent on free agents. And the market usually has a bunch of mediocre guys and a few stars in post-prime. You can find a gem like Stefan Noesen, but I'm afraid JBB will sign another Connor Sheary instead.

 

[Rschmitz]

This is the NHL and pretty much after the first game of the season getting everyone healthy never happens. It is a war of attrition.

Sure

Paul, Kucherov, and Chaffee are probably healthy come our next game Thursday, thus my comment

 

[Stammertime91]

First of all i would fire JBB too. and yes this roster has holes but i believe even this roster is capable of more than just a wild card/first round exit. It's not Brisebois fault that they've been playing the same defensive "structure" for 3 years and it's not his fault that the coaching staff needs 1/4 of the season to try Point in the left circle on the power play.

Actually, it would be his fault because he hires the coaches. Lol.

 

[Stammertime91]

Going to the finals is a fail in a 32 team league in your mind? Right, got it. I think most people would take that relative to the one and done that has become our norm, that is if we get there at all this year. The bottom line is that this is a grossly inconsistent team on a bad trajectory and you just want to stay the course. I don't, and I don't know why anyone would.

Losing in the finals is something we've done twice and nobody counts those as cups. So, yes.... it's a fail. You were not the Stanley Cup winner. The mission isn't to finish runner up, it's to win. That was a huge motivation and learning experience in 2015 for the core and Cooper. It's a deep run, but I don't think our fanbase would be like oh cool we made it to the SCF *again* and lost for the third time in a decade. I think we'd be appreciative of their hard work, but nobody is desperately awaiting the ECF banner ceremony.

It's an inconsistent team because it's an inferior lineup to even last year. If that's the trajectory, how is that Coopers fault? He doesn't sign the players. I want to stay the course with Cooper but somebody that can't even distinguish roles between GM and head coach on HF wants to just push a button by firing John Cooper and replace him with whatever already fired coach is sitting on the couch cause he's a "ball buster," or an unknown from wherever. Got it. Great plan.

 

[Stammertime91]

Can we please stop melting down every time we lose? It's a tough division. We aren't likely to win it.

It's a personnel issue. The team is inferior and this is what we paid two cups for. The woes and moaning should be directed at JBB, but we knew what we were getting. I don't understand the bitching about Cooper. I don't understand the expectations people have for this team on paper. Realistically, if Vasy keeps this kind of play, we are a WC team and if we make it, it just takes getting hot.

It sucks seeing them lose games, but I agree with yours and RSchmitzs comment the other day, the division is rather wide open. Looking at the east, there's an Achilles heel for each team. If we add two bottom six players at the TDL that aren't dwarfs and can actually contribute, we could become a dark horse. Until then, I've come to terms this is exactly the "mortgage the future" part of the process and firing Cooper talk is absolutely nonsensical.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

On the nflip side, Toronto only won 5-3? and did not dominate. Leafs fans should be concerned.

 

[FinnLightning26]

Vasi can't stop a beachball against these guys.

At least we didn't blow a lead this time.

 

[Soul Assumption]

I don't understand the bitching about Cooper. I don't understand the expectations people have for this team on paper.

So realistically Washington and Minnesota are better on paper, and Tampa is a Flyers level team?