Post-Game Talk: 1/21/18 - Vancouver Canucks 0 @ Winnipeg Jets 1

[Intangibos]

Really? There is an extreme double standard on both players here. That was my point. Virtanen plays less then 10 minutes a night but should be producing more.

If Virtanen can play defence and create zone time at the rate of Gaunce, I wouldn't mind him not scoring. Gaunce is useful. Virtanen is useless. Nobody gave a shit that Manny Malhotra was a black hole offensively.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

No maybe you have a hard time understanding me? I meant that scoring(not scratching) wasn't an issue for Guance. Virtanen has been scratched this year as well.

At this point I'm not sure this is doing anything other then going round and round with you trying to discredit me.

Gaunce spent two years in the minors learning to be a checker and now he's checking his ass off every night. It's a different thing.

 

[Kryten]

I wonder how Virtanen wouldve done and where he wouldve been drafted if he played in the OHL

 

[VanJack]

There's going to be a lot of these games down the stretch, where the Canucks play decently but lose. In fact depending on what happens at the trade deadline, I can see another 6-15 or 5-16 stretch the rest of the way. Looking at the current lineup, I'm not sure it's actually as good as last year's roster particularly on the blueline.....but the guys who have to wear it are Benning and Linden, not the coaches.....at least Jimbo was in the audience and was forced to watch it, looking less than enthralled whenever the camera panned on him.

It'll by obvious by year-end that the changes for next season won't just be on the ice. The owner has to bring the hammer down on this entire group. And pains me to say it, but the Canucks simply have to move on from Henrik and Daniel, even it makes them worse for next year. It's time.

 

[rune74]

If Virtanen can play defence and create zone time at the rate of Gaunce, I wouldn't mind him not scoring. Gaunce is useful. Virtanen is useless. Nobody gave a **** that Manny Malhotra was a black hole offensively.

What advanced stat are using for create zone time? I was looking at both players advanced stats and was trying to come up with how you came to that conclusion?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Feng Shui sucks man, we need to move out of Rogers.

Too many bike lanes in Vancouver, our players are getting tired waiting in traffic or having to bike to the arena.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

There's going to be a lot of these games down the stretch, where the Canucks play decently but lose. In fact depending on what happens at the trade deadline, I can see another 6-15 or 5-16 stretch the rest of the way. Looking at the current lineup, I'm not sure it's actually as good as last year's roster particularly on the blueline.....but the guys who have to wear it are Benning and Linden, not the coaches.....at least Jimbo was in the audience and was forced to watch it, looking less than enthralled whenever the camera panned on him.

It'll by obvious by year-end that the changes for next season won't just be on the ice. The owner has to bring the hammer down on this entire group. And pains me to say it, but the Canucks simply have to move on from Henrik and Daniel, even it makes them worse for next year. It's time.

I think Trev and the Sedins will call their own shot next year; it'll be up to them. In the Aquiverse, this is the way it works. Upper alumni make their own call.

Of course it's a very bad thing, but it seems to be the way.

 

[RandV]

I think Trev and the Sedins will call their own shot next year; it'll be up to them. In the Aquiverse, this is the way it works. Upper alumni make their own call.

Of course it's a very bad thing, but it seems to be the way.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree but with the Sedin's you can make an exception what with them being the franchise's only career-Canuck HOF (soon to be) players.

 

[Intangibos]

What advanced stat are using for create zone time? I was looking at both players advanced stats and was trying to come up with how you came to that conclusion?

I learned long ago to avoid using advanced stats with many posters here, so I'm using the eye test so they can keep up.
However, Gaunce starts overwhelmingly in defensive zone while Virtanen does not. Yet he still tends to finish his shift in the offensive zone. Also, for what it's worth, Gaunce also has an extremely low shooting % at 4.4 which you could argue is pretty unsustainable. He's not being put into a position to score, and has 2 goals compared to Virtanen's 6, and 3 points to Virtanen's 10.

Does Gaunce need to pick up his offensive play? Yes, it really isn't acceptable. However he's actually solid defensively which is more than I can say for Jake Virtanen. Quite simply Jake's production does not justify his play. Gaunce actually doesn't cost you on the ice and has actually been starting to get some shots on goal. I think we can see some improvement in Gaunce's game while Virtanen has regressed since December.
Virtanen has far more potential than Gaunce will ever have, but I'd rather have Gaunce on the ice than Virtanen.

Seriously though, lets not pretend you were actually looking at advanced stats

 

[EpochLink]

There was a game today?

 

[Addison Rae]

There was a game today?

your two favourite teams...

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I wouldn't necessarily disagree but with the Sedin's you can make an exception what with them being the franchise's only career-Canuck HOF (soon to be) players.

I agree, and I expect them to sign one or two year deals in the summer at a minimum figure of five million per each.

 

[StreetHawk]

I agree, and I expect them to sign one or two year deals in the summer at a minimum figure of five million per each.

I really want to move on from the twins.... It doesn't seem like we can ever start fresh and take out lumps that we've been holding off on over these past few years.

Really hope when Aquaman goes interviewing for a new GM, that the top candidates tell him, that their plan for the Canucks would be to let the twins walk.

As for this game, the overpassing by the twins in the final 1:30 on the PP. For crying out loud take a shot on goal and generate a rebound. Not every assist is going to be the result of a direct pass.

 

[EpochLink]

your two favourite teams...

Too involved with the NFL today.
Didn’t realize these ******* we’re playing

 

[Addison Rae]

Too involved with the NFL today.
Didn’t realize these ******* we’re playing

f*** the patriots

 

[EpochLink]

**** the patriots

Another New England Super Bowl...this will probabaly the first Super Bowl I won’t watch since Super Bowl 33

 

[Havre]

I really want to move on from the twins.... It doesn't seem like we can ever start fresh and take out lumps that we've been holding off on over these past few years.

Really hope when Aquaman goes interviewing for a new GM, that the top candidates tell him, that their plan for the Canucks would be to let the twins walk.

As for this game, the overpassing by the twins in the final 1:30 on the PP. For crying out loud take a shot on goal and generate a rebound. Not every assist is going to be the result of a direct pass.

And how is this the Sedins´ fault?

Sure they aren´t worth their contract this year, but to move on just for the sake of moving on is quite silly. Would having two extremely professional and experienced guys hurt you at 1m each? Hardly. They are not the one "blocking" the youngsters in such a scenario. If they ask for another big contract because of what they have historically accomplished - then I agree. Even if it wouldn´t really matter much for next year if they were paid 5m each on a one year deal.

 

[yvrtojfk]

Boeser looked dangerous today. Think they’ll start bouncing in again. Didn’t notice Horvat, don’t think that’s a bad thing either. Stetcher played well. Nilsson stood on his head for once. Cooking and watching hockey, might be a thing for me this year.

 

[rune74]

I learned long ago to avoid using advanced stats with many posters here, so I'm using the eye test so they can keep up.
However, Gaunce starts overwhelmingly in defensive zone while Virtanen does not. Yet he still tends to finish his shift in the offensive zone. Also, for what it's worth, Gaunce also has an extremely low shooting % at 4.4 which you could argue is pretty unsustainable. He's not being put into a position to score, and has 2 goals compared to Virtanen's 6, and 3 points to Virtanen's 10.

Does Gaunce need to pick up his offensive play? Yes, it really isn't acceptable. However he's actually solid defensively which is more than I can say for Jake Virtanen. Quite simply Jake's production does not justify his play. Gaunce actually doesn't cost you on the ice and has actually been starting to get some shots on goal. I think we can see some improvement in Gaunce's game while Virtanen has regressed since December.
Virtanen has far more potential than Gaunce will ever have, but I'd rather have Gaunce on the ice than Virtanen.

Seriously though, lets not pretend you were actually looking at advanced stats

Why wouldn't I be looking at advanced stats? What is with some of you thinking you have the market cornered here? You know absolutely nothing about me, as the old saying goes one shouldn't assume about people.

Jake Virtanen NHL Advanced Statistics (All) | Hockey-Reference.com
Brendan Gaunce Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[VanJack]

Ehlers was the best player on the ice tonight....while Virtanen was a healthy scratch.....oh what could have been.

 

[Intangibos]

Why wouldn't I be looking at advanced stats? What is with some of you thinking you have the market cornered here? You know absolutely nothing about me, as the old saying goes one shouldn't assume about people.

Jake Virtanen NHL Advanced Statistics (All) | Hockey-Reference.com
Brendan Gaunce Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

I never claimed I have the market cornered on advanced stats, I'm not really an advanced stats guy. I think they play a role in assessing a player, but I certainly don't know the ins and outs of that stuff. I do, however, know something about you because we've had discussions ad nauseam in the past where you completely disregarded statistics. Glad to see you've turned a new page in your HF posting career!

What's strange is that in the past, despite your clear dislike of Gaunce, you've admitted he's a fine 4th liner. Maybe the problem is your extreme optimism towards Virtanen makes you think he even deserves to play on the 4th line.

Also your links back up what I said about zone starts

 

[WTG]

Watched the game while working out.

Hutton scratched in favor for Biega, Del Zotto still in the lineup. I do not like these sorts of personnel decisions, mostly because they are idiotic. Nothing more you can really say, Winnipeg is better, so are 28 other teams in the league, so it's about as expected of a result as you can get.


Hutton should be on the first unit power play.

 

[me2]

Why wouldn't I be looking at advanced stats? What is with some of you thinking you have the market cornered here? You know absolutely nothing about me, as the old saying goes one shouldn't assume about people.

Jake Virtanen NHL Advanced Statistics (All) | Hockey-Reference.com
Brendan Gaunce Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

High danger chances
Virtanen: 44.8%
Gaunce: 46.7%

Burn down the wing, fire a low percentage bad angle from the boards.

 

[2011 still hurts]

Man after Virtanens December I was really hoping to see some more slow progress from him, really disappointed in his January so far.

The potential is still there for him to be an effective top 6 forward but man, he's really making you doubt if he can get rid of his bad habits. Think this is the point where you send him down again.

 

[me2]

Man after Virtanens December I was really hoping to see some more slow progress from him, really disappointed in his January so far.

The potential is still there for him to be an effective top 6 forward but man, he's really making you doubt if he can get rid of his bad habits. Think this is the point where you send him down again.

It's probably for the best if they do. Try and get him some confidence. They set the example with Goldobin, they should keep up the standard.